NWB - Community Blog

26 Mar 2010

Don't want to rant...........

Filed Under : Rants

Posted By : The Old Bank Inn | Comments : 49

But...............

As if life wasn't tough enough in these hard times...............for both venues and bands........and we all have to make decisions that works best for us......right??? So I made the decision not to book the bands that I know play at a venue very near to us......I thought this was only fair to the other venue and thought I was giving more choice to customers???
However, at times bands are booked unknowingly at both venues and thats where I would think a bit of common sense comes in to play..........from both bands and venues..........we tend to go by the following;

We ask that you do not play at any other local venues/shows (2 Mile radius of our venue) 4 weeks prior to and 2 weeks after your shows here. It's not that we don't want you to play out, however, by playing too many local shows, you hurt your attendance, not just at this show, but shows you have booked in other venues as well. Failure to comply with this, gives us the right to cancel your booking. (although these rules are made to be broken etc, it's re-enforcing a bit of common sense - right????)

We thought by doing this, customers would not get saturated with the same old, same old.......it would give customers a better choice.......customers would not get fed up watching the same band over and over again and keep music live!!!!....and from a business point of view, it would work better than having an empty pub as customers have opted to go elsewhere etc.........

What do you guys think???????

Jackie xxx

Comments

# Posted by ST Photography - VIVA LA COMMU... - 26/03/2010, 18:28 (GMT)

In my experience, the only time the 4 week rule has been applied is with originals bands rather than covers bands. Generally speaking, originals bands bring their own crowd whereas covers bands do not. I can see what you're trying to do Jacky, and it's a creative but ultimately unworkable solution to age old problem. An alternative solution would be to book the bands less often.

I think we all know that trying to restrict where, when and for whom a band plays is like trying to plait sawdust!!

# Posted by Bad Horsie (Mick) - 26/03/2010, 18:30 (GMT)

Perfect sense I would say Jackie. Nobody wants their audience or beer buying punters diluted.

# Posted by 45's - 26/03/2010, 18:33 (GMT)

Hi Jackie, We haven't had the pleasure of playing for you yet (looking forward to it though) so really don't know the pubs in question. How far from the King Eddy are you?

Rick x

# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 26/03/2010, 18:36 (GMT)

Didn't know there was another pub within 2 miles of Heysham...Strawberry Gardens?
Do you sell nettle beer? I like that!

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 18:38 (GMT)

Cheers for that ST....yeah we don't stick to the 4 wk rule its mainly a guidline if you like. The bands that we book more often are ones that have told us they would definitly not be playing at the nearby venue!! However, another band has booked in to the other venue the night before playing at ours.......to be honest I don't think that is going to do either venues or the band any favours????

# Posted by Anthem - 26/03/2010, 18:39 (GMT)

you're thinking of the Old Hall mate

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 18:46 (GMT)

Cheers Mick....my thoughts completely and I would much rather have the chance to give more choice to customers......

Rick....I'm a woman lol and don't have a clue - guessing, I would say about a mile ??? To be honest, we really don't affect each other but at the same time I know customers have came to ours from the Eddy to see a band they have not seen for a while and no doubt visa versa.....but in general we haven't really clashed so it doesn't have a major affect on either of us.

Alex - I'd make the nettle beer esp for you if I knew you were coming by lol

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 18:49 (GMT)

The other venue is just around the corner, not the Eddy....

# Posted by Bass Bloke - 26/03/2010, 18:58 (GMT)

Sent you a worried pm Jackie

# Posted by hulkamania78 - 26/03/2010, 19:00 (GMT)

TBH its a common prob for us we play alot of gigs in Darwen and there are 3 venues we play at. But the audiences are that pissed they never really tell and its usually the same faces at the different venues.
I dont see how this could work as its about the band earning a living as much as the pub. So cancelling due to this is my opinion is a bit harsh. I understand in this day and age of the sliding pub industry but bands are out to earn a living as well so to me this is a ridiculous statement.

We have had venues we have played ring us up 1-2 weeks later as a band has cancelled and gone back 2-3 weeks later. Its not ideal admmitedly but I dont think it would work. And judging from the disgraceful behaviour of a venue on here this week regarding exclusivity of a band to there venue. Unless a contract is signed by both parties but for 250 a gig aint worth it . I say play where you like. I respect though what you mean it makes sense but is not practical in this day and age. cheers.

# Posted by Bad Horsie (Mick) - 26/03/2010, 19:11 (GMT)

Hulk, nobody makes a living out of this. We're hobby bands.

It makes no business sense at all to saturate an area with the same band on a regular basis. People go elsewhere and then the pubs can't afford the fees because the punters are watching something fresh somewhere else. No pub=nowhere for the bands to play in the first place.

# Posted by HAPPY DAIZE - 26/03/2010, 19:26 (GMT)

@Bad Horsie/Mick:I have to disagree, as 3 of our guys (2 in the band and the sound engineer) are full time. Also, many of this site's contributors earn a part of their living from playing.

Rob

# Posted by VANKWISH - 26/03/2010, 19:28 (GMT)

there are exceptoins guys,
how many people on here go watch the same bands over again, we all say we will go watch others, but only tend to do it when they are in your local. not pointing fingers at anyone imperticular before you all start shouting we travel ere we travel there, fair enuff, some do. we played 3 gigs all within a 2 and 1/2 mile of each other in 3 weeks. all packed and all good nights..... if they like you they will come, there was a blog on not too long ago and I was shocked to find bands had "loyalty pubs", I'm stil shocked at that, we play anywhere for anybody, if a gig was pulled because we played a gig down the road, must be honest that would really p$%s me off, sorry but thats just my opinion.

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 19:29 (GMT)

mmmmm.....interesting, see i thought that by using this as guidlines (and it is only guidlines as we have never acted on this)I would be able to get more bands through my doors. I've got loads of quality bands waiting for a gig, and it just kinda saddens me to think that we as venues, are for one reason or another all booking the same bands!!! Its not as much booking the same bands thats the problem, as if they are a few weeks apart it shouldn't have any impact, the problem lies when venues book the same band too close together....one night after another is not going to do either venue any good and I would much prefer to bring in another band thats waiting for a gig.....

@hulkamania - I totally understand that bands have to make a living as much as the venues....but whats worrying is the fact that more and more venues are dropping live music because it doesn't pay -can we as venues and bands be doing something to try prevent this?? If we worked on door fee alone, obviously this would have a major impact and I do know loads of bands that work this way (albeit not at our venue). I don't think its being ridiculous (!) just trying to make the right business decisions and keep music live......

# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 26/03/2010, 19:31 (GMT)

I think that it is a good idea as long as common sense prevails and you don't end up with a situation like the one at Coolers and Cricketers. Also if both venues do not work together, you can end up with unsavoury incedents.

A good idea but it may be hard to enforce.

# Posted by viking - 26/03/2010, 19:36 (GMT)

@the cottonhouse shakers-have i missed something?
"you don't end up with a situation like the one at Coolers and Cricketers. Also if both venues do not work together, you can end up with unsavoury incedents."

# Posted by HAPPY DAIZE - 26/03/2010, 19:42 (GMT)

I think that Jackie's main problem is the fact that the other pub in question hasn't of late been particularly well organised, so would be impossible to work with. I do believe that healthy competition can enhance both venues, however. I for one, am really looking forward to playing at the Old Bank Inn in May (shamless plug there!).

Rob

# Posted by Bad Horsie (Mick) - 26/03/2010, 19:45 (GMT)

"# Posted by HAPPY DAIZE - 26/03/2010, 19:26 (GMT)

@Bad Horsie/Mick:I have to disagree, as 3 of our guys (2 in the band and the sound engineer) are full time. Also, many of this site's contributors earn a part of their living from playing.

Rob"

Rob, yep, point taken there are exceptions to the rule. apologies for the generalisation. :o)

# Posted by HAPPY DAIZE - 26/03/2010, 19:47 (GMT)

No probs Mick :-)

Rob

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 20:32 (GMT)

I totally 100% believe in healthy competition and also believe that when there are venues close to each other providing live music - they do each other justice. I do like to work with other venues where possible and if customers don't like the band we have on, I will give them the alternatives available....my motto is; the less reason customers have for coming into the area, the more we will ALL suffer!

Maybe I'm overly concerned unneccesarily, but I still believe that over saturating customers with the same music is not viable and I for one would love to give more bands the chance of a gig rather than having a half empty pub as there is no demand for the band....

# Posted by ~ THE SUG4R BULLETS ~ - 26/03/2010, 20:44 (GMT)

Correct me if I'm wrong but the issue here is that a band has booked a a gig at 2 venues very close to each other on consecutive nights....why?

It'd be like us playing the White Hart one night then the Talbot the next night...why would we we do that?

Unless we played a completely different set it just doesn't make sense.

Common sense needs to prevail on the bands part surely, not the venue...unless the venue keeps a track on all of their band's whereabouts how do they know where they are?

Not telling any band what to do just my opinion...

# Posted by James - Metalleeka - 26/03/2010, 21:08 (GMT)

Hi Jackie, do you advertise your listings well in advance?? ie. is there any way a band could look at your diary? to ensure that they plan wisely??

Have tried to get a booking at your place to no avail.

Just been your profile here, and your myspace but couldnt find a complete listing?

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 26/03/2010, 21:58 (GMT)

@Sugar Bullets-100%, wish I'd got you to do the initial post lol

@Steelfield-we made the decision not to advertise well in advance due to problems in the past.....and for some reason, I have difficulty in accessing the gig guide on here (it seems to be a hit and a miss, therefore I've never really used it this year) Myspace tends to be just a week or two in advance and is not ideal as the events are not very clear so the main one we tend to use is facebook either through my own Jackie Meechan or the group The Old Bank Inn - but again we only advertise a week or so infront. Regulars to the pub will get the next months entertainment and, when it appears, we advertise in our local what's on guide as well as other 'pub entertainment' sites. I really don't think this is the issue though, as my diary was almost full before the end of last year with only a handful of dates to be filled by January.........When booking are taken, generally both the band and the venue have their diarys to hand....many bands do state they can't do a gig as it's so near another booking locally or they will only play our venue xxx months apart!!! This does seem the easiest way around it, as it is impossible to keep a check on what other venues are doing, but bands do know where they are booked to play.....as mentioned above, I would love to have more bands on as we get requests on a daily basis, but there is just not enough dates in one year....hence the reason I'm a tad p$$$** off that several nights of bands that I've got booked in are going to be a complete waste of time where I could have had bands like yourself and others on the waiting list on!!!!

# Posted by James - Metalleeka - 26/03/2010, 22:10 (GMT)

understood...

# Posted by Knight Terra - 26/03/2010, 23:49 (GMT)

Let's face it some bands will just do it for the money.Some may be good enough to draw a crowd fairly regularly.In a way maybe the person making the bookings should do a little research locally.I both do and do not understand why you would fill the next year's diary as early as some do [that's their business].Does it encourage bands to remain current ? I for one know bands who haven't changed their sets in years,play in the same pubs + wouldn't bother about a gap in between.
This encourages folk to pick and choose when + where they will go as you can always see so and so at such a place whenever.Take Whittles for example he hosts a mix of bands most weeks, not sure what Friday entails,normally meet my mates on a Saturday night but this week it's a blues band {not my thing]Sunday Helvellyn 2 more like it, haven't played there since some time last year, having that.
We as a group will go out to watch bands and try different pubs but there are only so many times I can watch folk doing whole lotta rosie etc + around here that happens a lot.That's my personal view as a band you wouldn't believe the amount of times landlords have asked if we play such and such a song so maybe we're missing a trick,Rock On !

Des-Knight Terra.

# Posted by Knight Terra - 27/03/2010, 00:25 (GMT)

@ Old Bank Inn do you fill your diary upfront with bands and give them x amount of dates at a time? I know pubs that only book 2 months in advance and will state they only pay from their budget earned from the month before.The bands know and appreciate that and it's up to them whether they accept the fee or not.Funnily enough these pubs are never short of takers.

# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 27/03/2010, 02:52 (GMT)

There's about 5 million bands on this site alone...the chances of the same band playing within 2 miles of Heysham same year are about one in a billion! LOL
@Old Bank
Dont listen to this lot, they're just trying to butter you up...
build...and they will come LOL (good film that!)

# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 27/03/2010, 03:03 (GMT)

@Viking - yes there was a blog which now appears to have been deleted.

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 03:07 (GMT)

@Des - cheers for the comments & taken on board - it's kinda a catch 22 as if we don't book in advance most of the bands that the customers want are fully booked and again if a new band went down really well last year then we will book them in for another gig this year - this together with getting new bands on board, believe me the diary filled up much quicker than anticipated....(baring in mind that we only book bands on a Sat night as we have quite a bit of other entertainment, solo artists etc. both day and night). Think I just thought it would be common sense not to play next door too soon as both venues and bands suffer - and at the end of the day business is business unfortunately - and although the bands will make the same money, unfortunately the venues will no doubt run at a loss and get the reputation of 'they didn't pull a good crowd'.........

Notice that I did state initially 'I don't want to rant.....but'.... jeez, I just can't help myself.....

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 03:12 (GMT)

Alex its Blackpool not Heysham or am I missing summit lol

# Posted by James - Metalleeka - 27/03/2010, 09:09 (GMT)

having not played the blackpool band scene yet; for the uneducated amongst us.. can someone name "next door"?

# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 27/03/2010, 11:37 (GMT)

I take it all back... Blackpool Heysham southport...all the same to me...somewhere you buy candy floss LOL
Got mixed up with that pub in Heysham...ooops!

# Posted by Luiz Mareze (guitarist in Dose... - 27/03/2010, 13:04 (GMT)

what' the difference anyway, everyone's just playing 'sex on fire' and 'teenage kicks' ... aren't musicians supposed to be creative?

# Posted by James - Metalleeka - 27/03/2010, 14:23 (GMT)

we dont....

# Posted by Willow (of somebig™Fish) (Reti... - 27/03/2010, 14:24 (GMT)

theBigfish <---- obviously not part of "everyone"!
WtF

# Posted by Ian from Bolton - 27/03/2010, 14:34 (GMT)

Ooops. We can see where you are coming from. Checking our diary, we find ourselves in this situation with bookings in Blackpool and we will CERTAINLY make sure it doesn't happen next year when we are taking dates.

.

# Posted by Roj (Black Rose) - 27/03/2010, 14:55 (GMT)

To me, I must help if venues and bands can come to some arrangement where every venue is happy, re my blog on The Hindley Arms and the other pub just down the road which I've forgotten the name of.

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 15:07 (GMT)

@Kerbcrawlers - Ian as far as I can see, your bookings for Blackpool are fine as they are weeks apart and at a further distance.....don't see that being any problem....

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 15:11 (GMT)

@Luiz - if that was the case then I wouldn't be bothered!!! The bands we book are creative and fantastic musicians....

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 15:22 (GMT)

@Roj cant find the blog you mention so not sure what u mean lol :-)

# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 27/03/2010, 15:52 (GMT)

see

# Posted by viking - 27/03/2010, 16:21 (GMT)

@the cotton house shakers-ah! have made some enquiries-got the gist of it-anyone wants FACTS on that subject, feel free to pm me. :-D

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 16:36 (GMT)

Hahahahaha fkn p$$$** mesel an only watch a third of it..........fk knows whats to come....

# Posted by viking - 27/03/2010, 16:39 (GMT)

@the old bank inn-except someone needs to tell herr shickelgruber and his generals that hollingworth lake is nowhere near shaw and the boro folks get kinda miffed at other people (usually rochdalians) trying to claim it as their own!! lol!! ;-D

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 16:44 (GMT)

Hahaha...totally priceless!!!! Hes obviously got too much time on his hands and needs to do a bit more giggin....brightened up my day tho lol.....he wasn't trying to say I rant like that.....was he??? Alex???? psml.... :-))))

# Posted by The Imposters - 27/03/2010, 17:16 (GMT)

I can see what Jackie is trying to and what she is trying to avoid, BUT .... this situation need never arise in the first place if Bands used their common sense when taking bookings, in other words leave a decent time gap between playing in the same area, irrespective of the Pub ... problem solved without having to put it onto the Lanlords and Landladies this has worked for me and the various bands I have taken bookings for over the past 20 years.

G.

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 17:19 (GMT)

Well said Imposter....thought I was crackin up there lol

# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 27/03/2010, 17:29 (GMT)

@The Imposters - Well I didn't want to say it...but seeing that you have.....yes I agree. Venues shouldn't need to enforce rules.

# Posted by The Old Bank Inn - 27/03/2010, 17:34 (GMT)

And just to clarify.....we used that as guidlines going from advice from other venues and bands.....it has NEVER been enforced as we have never had a problem....heres hoping we dont have any problems with the current bookings...!!!!

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