NWB - Community Blog

Debating time!!!

Indeed it is getting worse...expect another venue cancelling gigs this week too...still at least gigs seem to be being honoured at Hulton Arms...
I'm seriously considering Night Train playing for free next year...or at least fuel and a few drinks. Let's face it, we bemoan the fact that people can't afford to go out these days, yet we expect to be paid for a night out....and come on, thats the reason most bands on here play...for fun! Sure there are expenses, but there are expenses for people just going out...eg taxis,new clothes etc.
Maybe that's the way to go, to keep music 'live'?

If I wasn't gigging, I'd be going out watching a band anyway... having to pay, but I'd rather gig than watch anyone else...know what I mean?

Of course band fees aren't the major expenxe for a pub..one pub I was in recently pays £29000 business rates.!!!!

Solution in these recession/ConDemned/robbingbanker times may be to offer to play more 'local' gigs for just expenses....build up the music scene in your local area...after all, its the travelling and weird hours that are the hardest part of gigging. I'd play the pub next door (if there still was one) for fun when push comes to shove!

@night train... good idea, we play two or three local pubs on a 'free' basis, expenses, a couple of drinks, it beats rehearsing to no one but yourselves, and most bands have to pay for a rehearsal room anyway, offer to do a gig at your local, see how it goes... just an idea... bill

"# Posted by 45's - 05/10/2010, 11:50 (GMT)

Another approach is to accept what the pub can afford to pay you on the night"

Yup. Well said mate.

we always say 'whatever the going rate is'...however maybe its now time to reappraise 'the going rate'. I'd rather a pub pay a going rate of £75 and keep music on, rather than pay £200 and then cancel music.
A lot of pubs that are cancelling are saying they can't afford bands...ie they either have to pay bands £200 or not have them on at all

I understand what you're saying but don't think playing for free is the way to go. The managers of the pubs have to pay their barstaff, so why wouldn't they pay their bands? They wouldn't expect their barstaff to work for expenses and a few drinks so why should the bands do the same? We're working too.

Putting on live music is an expense but if a pub has a band on it's more likely that people will stay in there for longer and buy more drinks. If there was nothing on they'd just buy one drink then move on to the next pub.

If it's a bit of a dead week for us we sometimes go out and play at a jam night, particularly if it's one where there's a potential of getting a full gig out of it.

If all venues bought a PA then that would help. I regularly play at my local (The Black Horse) in Darwen for a few drinks...and sometimes not even that. A few years ago I persuaded the landlord to fork out a few hundred quid for a decent PA because he would get performers to play for little expence if they didn't have to load the van with pa gear. For the last few years the pub has seen some amazing acoustic nights, world music, jazz and blues nights at very low expence.

I do draw the line at breaking my back for nothing but if there is give and take then that's fine. I'm not sure that undercutting other artists is the way forward, if you give an inch they (venues) will take a yard. A plumber won't fix my bog for free because he is short of work.

Give and take...I will give a performance if you don't take the piss.

The problem with venues investing in PA is that they have to know what they are doing with it. There are a few places I can recall over the years who have done this and the visiting bands have taken the piss and driven the cones right off the speakers cos "it's not ours. Let's see how loud we can get it".

I think using a tradesman such as a plumber etc as a parallel is slightly inaccurate. A plumber is called in to fit or fix something and gives a price. In the case of us pub bands, a band is purely an enhancement or a mechanism to provide profit. We're entertainment. We don't have a specific value as such.

It's a bonus if the owners/managers love the music, but as performers we have to recognise that there's only so much cash available per venue.

If your band doesn't go out for less than £200, for instance, and a venue can't pay £200, I don't see the harm at all in leaving bands who do go out for less from playing it. That's not undercutting IMO. It's simply the way the market is. It's not possible for a full band to make a living from pubs any more. That's the way it IS. We adapt or we don't.

@ Dakota. "no money = no new gear = no gig"

Spot on Trig. Although we all do it for fun, I assume that like me the earnings buy your gear.
Out of the 3-10 people who play with RFB, 3 are professional musicians, (so need some wages), 4 have another job and the final, (core), 3 don't work.
If we gigged for free if anything broke, we couldn't replace it, so no more gigs.
I, like Trig own the PA, Lights, web-site, yada, yada, and it is funded entirely out of Gig money. Absolutely no way would i be able to find the money to replace the PA or even the Lights without the Gig money.

Bang on Mick - if you don't like the going rate, don't play there.

It's not as if there's a 'going' rate that venues pay bands, it's all between the band and the venue.

Not only do different venues offer different amounts, some venues pay different bands different amounts.

And that's the way it should stay - if a venue really wants a particular band on, then they will pay the required amount, and if a band really want to play a venue, they'll accept the offered amount.

It ain't rocket science!

AYP

@Mick Bad Horsie(and AYP)- some very good points about the PA and irresponsible bands, venues would need somebody to look after the eqpt which I understand could be an extra expence. However most venues know a regular who would be happy to do this for a few beers.....

As for the points made about undercutting, I also agree. My point however was refering to Alecs suggestion of playing for 'fuel and a few drinks' and not accepting a gig for £150 instead of the prefered £200. This prompted my comments about venues supplying a PA. I think this also answers AYPs points.

My main point I suppose is that I am as skilled and experienced as any tradesman out there but I see musicians getting the piss taken out of them constantly. Sometimes it's like being in the dark ages with some people's attitudes.

Therefore -

If you invite me in through the front door and look after me then I will gladly respond but if you order me to arrive via the tradesmans entrance and demand my cooperation then I want a tradesmans wage. I earn a living out of music but I don't know may tradesmen who will offer their services for free like I do.