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Bad Pub Management is killing the Music Scene

Filed Under : Music , Rants

Posted By : hulkamania78 | Comments : 86

North West is a hillbilly Highway


Having kept a close eye on the Keep Music Alive meetings, blogs and Gary's review on Kingpin I think it may also be an area specific problem.

Hindley has the Hindley Arms and Georgia Browns that are the main venues for music with a few others thrown in for good measure. We all know how good the Arms is as a venue and Georgia Browns is a good venue but not a specific venue for a certain genre of music.
I am sure alot of the younger ones who are not very educated would not step into the Hindley Arms as its protrayed as a Rock venue except on a Sunday which is a joke.
Georgia Browns is a mixed bag hence like Gary's comments full of a load piss heads. Its very much passing trade type of venue.

Now Hindley embraces music very well but in central Manchester the venues are not there and where I live in Stretford its non existent many of Whatever's venues in our area have shut down . Altrincham was a good area for us but there all dead in the water.

Darwen is an area I have spent probably 50% of my 400 gig time over 8 years in I know that place really well. Marigolds , Millstone were good venues for us. The Millstone is pretty crap now due to 6 or 7 landlords over 3 years ruining there business. Marigolds is always top draw Lynsey and Nicki know there audience and supply plenty of top bands.

But in Manchester venues like Marigolds just wouldnt exist. Its like a bygone era venue. I loved gigging at the the place but its so different to central town areas. The more you delve into the far flung reaches of Lancashire the better the venue. But alot of breweries are closing the smaller town pubs down and relocating to central town areas. Not realising these pubs are keeping the music alive. Breweries and cheap pint pubs are destroying the local we all know this.

I know where I live there is possibly 2 good band venues now and its the same recycled bands keeping there cycle of gigs to themselves .
I understand with rising costs of just about everything we all need to save money but is it worth losing the quality band venues.

Alot of pubs I have played and some on here I have not are not interested in pigeon holing there pub but it might not be a bad thing as places like The Market Tavern have been successful playing one style of music. But The Market Tavern in Altrincham is an old mans pub with very few youngers one coming in as they have not been brought up on real music. And I must admit its the same faces week in week out and outsiders are looked upon with distain at times. But it makes money as does the Hindley Arms and Marigolds to name a few. There always rammed.

Booking bands is one thing but booking the right bands for your pub is another.

I blame the miseducated Landlords/Landladies for the decline in live music not knowing what there booking then blaming the band and everyone else for there financial mismanagement of there pub.

The logo should now read

Keep Music Alive - Get a good Landord



And to quote a famous prophet of our time:

' As the space ship of life orbits the saturn hemisphere we embrace power and lose control. Our goal in lifes musical tapestry is to achieve a higher plain upon a desert filled camel ride.
But to come out the other side with a bottle of water and a sweat stained shirt is all in time with a drum beat and gods plan is nothing short than a bibalogical musical with too many scenes to obtain greatness. I say keep music alive'

Jon Travolta 1978 - Just before singing Summer Loving in Grease.

Comments

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# Posted by Pornstar - 23/01/2011, 22:27 (GMT)

Now here's a man that makes sense. Obviously speaking from expoerience - maybe more venues should take note and listen to this.

So, how many pubs have you managed Hulkmania and where are you now? I'd like to come to any venue with you in charge.


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 22:27 (GMT)

''Stranded at the Drive In''
Mate, correct me if I'm wrong....I've never been to Marigolds but is this the place where bands don't start 'til every other pub is shut.
Meaning every pisshead in town comes in cos they don't wanna go home.
Let Marigolds put bands on at the normal time and lets see how good it is then.....
''It was packed and we got 10 encores''
Yes, to a bunch of late night drunks who don't wanna go home.....
ooohhh how the ego distorts the facts...
Or am I wrong...???


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# Posted by Rob Redfern, Black Rose,more f... - 23/01/2011, 22:34 (GMT)


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 22:35 (GMT)

No ego Gaz. I mentioned other venues there.

Yeah Marigolds starts at 12 because it works. Everyone does go there but is that not good business sense? They know there market and how to make money.
That is my argument so dont understand the question.

A pub manager etc should know how to manage they get paid for it. And should have some financial business mind otherwise it is never gonna take off.

Jeffrey - Not run a pub but anyone with a brain can run a pub its running it right, thats the skill.


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 22:43 (GMT)

Not aiming anything at you Chris, speaking in General.
Fair enough, Marigolds makes money.....good for them.
But how many bands play there and think they're great because drunks clap and cheer them, drunks who won't even remember the bands name next morning while the singer of the band thinks he's gods gift cos people cheered him...
Play there at 9.30 like a 'normal' venue and lets see how good you really are...


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# Posted by Pornstar - 23/01/2011, 22:44 (GMT)

Hang on - you're having a go at Landlords and Landladys, but you've never run a pub?

If you are so savvy you can have a go at them, why aren't you doing it yourself?

What do you actually do?


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# Posted by Jez (Route 69) - 23/01/2011, 22:44 (GMT)

"I am sure alot of the younger ones who are not very educated would not step into the Hindley Arms as its protrayed as a Rock venue except on a Sunday which is a joke." - fine starting point to cause a bit of soapbox controversy!!! - can't really call the younger ones uneducated; maybe evolved, not uneducated!!
Lesson 1 - Times change - change with them!! Why don't young rock fans go to pubs? Cos the musics predictable and old?? Cos its not their generation???
"But The Market Tavern in Altrincham is an old mans pub with very few youngers one coming in as they have not been brought up on real music. "
Lesson 2 - as they say in Parliament - I refer the speaker to my previous answer!! Patronising the younger generation again!!! Music today is still real; we're just living in the past - the same way our parents thought we listened to noise!!
The comment about recycled bands - that is more than valid! There are several live venues in my town - but there is a cycle of the same bands and fair play to them for getting the gigs, but is that the wy forward? Personally, if I walk into a bar and I saw a band a month or 2 ago, unless they were something special I will stay for a drink and move on to see a new one.
Backing up this point - at the end of last year a "new" venue came on here asking for bands and got about 30 replies; about 3 or 4 bands who replied got gigs (plus repeats in many cases). Now I bet most people on NWB could write that band list without looking at the gig list - so why ask for interested bands? Send me an email and I'll send you a band list!!! (I'm expecting a foot stamping reply to that hopefully which might say why some do and some dont!!)
As for KMal - its great that people are fighting a corner - I tried to further this debate on another thread without success. Personally. its missing the point to me, my view; suffice to say (in disagreement to that cause and this thread) music is not dying; there are 100s of kids buying guitars and playing; times change - change with them.
...anyway, time to pour another Advocat... the devils ;0)


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 22:47 (GMT)

Horses for courses Chris, that's what you're getting at, yeah?

Rick.


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 22:53 (GMT)

Al....way past my bedtime mate.....you don't have to be pissed to enjoy LGIT.....although it may help loosen up the stiffs.....


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 22:57 (GMT)

Al...who am I having a go at...????????
I'm speaking in general....you're the one labeling musical genres.
Please don't get the wrong end of the stick here and get all defensive when I'm not having a go at you guys.....


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# Posted by Pornstar - 23/01/2011, 22:57 (GMT)

Actually, reading this again and in the light of Jez C's comments - are you a complete wanker Hulkmania?


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:02 (GMT)

Oh and for the record Chris...Not ONE other venue bothered to attend the meeting at the Hindley Arms last week....not one.
And you don't see Dave & Dee needing to start bands at midnight do you...?????


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:02 (GMT)

Rick you know me mate . But wat do I know I am only the second worst signer in NWB.

@alyerpal!!!!


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# Posted by Jez (Route 69) - 23/01/2011, 23:02 (GMT)

jeffrey - cmon mate, no need to take the chav stance and be offensive!! It sometimes best to throw some bait out and get the fuckers biting.... ;0)


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:05 (GMT)

Jeffrey love it son love it! I am a wanker only on HAMSTER X.


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:06 (GMT)

Al, I may have not made my point very well here.....
If Marigolds put bands on at 9.30 how many 'music' lovers would be there...irrespective of the genre of the band....?????
Obviously the gig wouldn't be as good.....so are the punters there for the band or the late bar...??? and don't say both...!!!


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:07 (GMT)

Gary - I understand what you mean about what time Marigolds has bands on but would Dave and Dee have as many people in if they started the bands at 6 I doubt it. The Marigolds time thing is not even up for debate. Yeah the people probably dont remember the band but there was plenty of ones who did and came back to see us.

Its about man management and knowing how to make money that is what I mean.


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:08 (GMT)

jeffery.
My first wife said there are only 2 types of men...wankers and liars...so which are you...???


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:09 (GMT)

both!!!hahaha


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 23:12 (GMT)

Chris, I was taking to the landlord at our Pineapple gig last night about the various bands he's had on. He surprised me when he told me which was one of his favourite bands and his least favourite. Then quickly corrected himself saying his least favourite band didn't deliver the genre of music for his punters. Again, horses for courses !


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:14 (GMT)

Chris
Why would anyone put a band on at 6...!!!????? silly beggar.
9/9.30 is the norm on a weekend...correct.
Later than that it's not about the music....is it....
I'm sure there are others that do this too, it's just Marigolds that sprang to mind...so don't accuse me of being anti-Marigold's here.....I remember going to a 'late' gig in Shaw.....full of drunks who would have cheered a Punch & Judy show.....


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:17 (GMT)

Rick
You are correct...Horses for Courses.
I just don't delude myself when drunks think I'm wonderful.....although I have married a couple of them...!!!!


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 23:17 (GMT)

Gary, Punch & Judy Show after midnight - that might be the way forward, pmsl,

Wick.


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# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 23/01/2011, 23:25 (GMT)

did John Travolta really say that?


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:26 (GMT)

Good debate this.


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# Posted by Jez (Route 69) - 23/01/2011, 23:32 (GMT)

doubt it Alex - but bet he said "do you want fries with that" though at some point!


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 23/01/2011, 23:33 (GMT)

Chris
You are the mass-debator.....


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 23/01/2011, 23:34 (GMT)

Like gaz. And yeah on my own I can debate a lot.


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# Posted by Jez (Route 69) - 23/01/2011, 23:38 (GMT)

especially on Hamster x!!! :0)


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 23:44 (GMT)

Chris, for the record, the Pineapple manager said WHATEVER was one of the favourites, which didn't surprise me but his "least favourite" did - one of my favourite bands on this site but by the end of the our gig I could see his point of view. We JUST got away with it (and another booking) because of our danceable Pop we do in the second set. But then you ask yourself, is this venue 100% for the 45's and would we play our "jokers" at Classic Rock Venues - NO we wouldn't. We are adding alot more songs to our repertoire to broaden our appeal to almost ANY venue (if that's at all possible),

Rick.


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 23/01/2011, 23:44 (GMT)

Good blog. I agree with a lot of what Hulk has said and a lot of what LGIT said however-

Seeing that Marigolds seems to be in the spotlight - my take on this (as a Darrener) is this........ Yes Marigolds start their live music as the other pubs close their doors for the night however, Darwen is a very small town centre and there are 2 other nightclubs for people to attend. The fact that so many people choose Marigolds says a lot for live music. Lindsey knows what type of band that works at the venue and it is always well supported. Now, Gary is also right in as far as Marigolds would not get anyone through the doors before 11.30pm. LGIT would die a slow death at Marigolds as would The Cottonhouse Shakers simply because we don't play Sex On Fire.

So yes, the punters are drunk but they choose live music over the 2 nightclubs in the town.

Finally, I don't think that it is any surprise that a lot of licensees don't know their arse from their elbows.... for the last 10 years it's been no secret that anybody can obtain a pub. It was much harder a few years ago. We all know that successful venues are mainly down to the landlord/landlady. We've all seen great venues ruined by bad management.


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 23:45 (GMT)

@ Gary LGIT - pmsl,

Wick.


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 23/01/2011, 23:52 (GMT)

@Rick- Punch & Judy Show after midnight - that might be the way forward

I can categorically say that this would not work at Marigolds! lol


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# Posted by 45's - 23/01/2011, 23:56 (GMT)

@ The Cottonhouse Shakers Gary, Why? lol


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 24/01/2011, 00:04 (GMT)

@Rick - Because as soon as the policeman showed up - everyone would scarper!!!


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 24/01/2011, 00:06 (GMT)

Cotton house dude
Thank you for the unoffended and ballanced information.....much better than getting all defensive and stroppy.....I know we wouldn't appeal to Marigolds.....I've made the point 1000 times that we have a minority target audience which we research in depth...we wanna play to Punks, not drunks...
If we did play Sex on Fire and Teenage Kicks to 200 drunks at 3 in the morning would it make us a better band...NO......would I be deluded enough to think my band was wonderful cos we got 10 encores in this environment...NO......but some do.(speaking in general here...OK)
NOT having a go at AYP, Kingpin, Whatever, Meerkat, or anyone in particular here (seen them, enjoyed them.....going to support Whatever next week...)so don't get on my case...Just making an observation relevant to the original post....if you've bothered to read it before jumping down my throat.


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# Posted by Willow (of somebig™Fish) (Reti... - 24/01/2011, 00:30 (GMT)

Might be because I'm in a different country but ..... What was the original point??
It certainly wasn't who are better than who? Just because you play certain material doesn't mean you're automatically shit,i.e. Play sex or teenage and you're shite ?.... No
The original point seemed to be about venues ..... Read it more than once and still can't see what point hulk was making, but it seems ask the venues mentioned subsequently are the successful ones .... So,a) Hulk, what's your point, and b) more important, what positive input do you have to put right whatever you deem to be wrong?
To paraphrase someone somewhere "give me solutions not problems"!!
Peace out


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# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 24/01/2011, 00:34 (GMT)

@ Willow
Bloody hell you'r on in holiday in Florida and still come on here :D


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 24/01/2011, 00:36 (GMT)

Yes three times!!


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# Posted by NIGHT TRAIN - 24/01/2011, 00:41 (GMT)

the solution is not to be worried about pubs...they'll find their own level...go where the stages and music lovers are..clubs. People who wanna be entertained, but are being fed drivel by the agency stranglehold


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 03:28 (GMT)

Well.... I only came on here to check for any msgs, I suppose I should respond but bear in mind I'm dosed up on painkillers for an agonising toothache and I've had a couple of glasses of wine!!

I'll post it as a few replies so it's easier on the eye to read, here goes...

As a large capacity venue we have to try our best to fill it each week in order to cover our overheads - which in the current climate are crippling. As a result we have to appeal to a broad range of people in order to attract and keep entertained 200+ people a night.

We manage to regularly attract people of all ages from 18 to 70 - packing 200+ people into one place, whilst safe in the knowledge they won't see any trouble or fights.

The local police can't say enough good things about the way we run our venue which is something we have always put above the opportunity to make a few quid by letting in kids or wrong-uns.


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 04:46 (GMT)

LGIT likes to say that he's not afraid to speak up, like some kind of hero dropping truth-bombs everywhere, it may well be his right to do this but to be fair it's not like we come on here all the time gloating about what a great venue we are. We just keep to ourselves and concentrate on trying to stay open from one week to the next and yet here I am having to defend my business.

When I do comment it's to try to give helpful answers from a venue's perspective rather than my own opinionated comments, so it's quite hurtful to hear things like:

Quote: "...Mate, correct me if I'm wrong....I've never been to Marigolds but is this the place where bands don't start 'til every other pub is shut. Meaning every pisshead in town comes in cos they don't wanna go home. "

LGIT are you aware that since the change in licensing laws most pubs/bars certainly don't shut at 12 when our bands go onstage, so they're not just coming up as there's nowhere else to go.

Rather than the pubs shutting and them heading to us we actually have to be a later venue as we're competing with pubs that were shut by 12 but now stay open later themselves because people are staying in drinking lots of cheap supermarket booze (understandable in a town like Darwen where people don't have huge amounts of disposable income or even jobs) and not going out until 10/11PM. Bring back the old closing times please!!

(I think I also resent you referring to my customers as merely every pisshead in town.)


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 04:47 (GMT)

Quote: ....''It was packed and we got 10 encores''
Yes, to a bunch of late night drunks who don't wanna go home..... "

Customers have to leave by 3:30AM and our bands have finished over an hour before then so those drunks don't need to cheer the bands on just so they don't have to go home yet because we remain open for another hour after the band has finished.

Maybe they cheer them because they've just seen a good band??


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 04:47 (GMT)

Quote: "But how many bands play there and think they're great because drunks clap and cheer them, drunks who won't even remember the bands name next morning..."

Wow you have a low opinion of my customers. If you think the crowd will clap anything and not care who they're watching then you see the place if we've (mistakenly!) put a shit act on, it kills the atmosphere and people leave which costs us money.

They may not be as picky a crowd as at other places and might be more receptive to the bands because they're drunk, but they can still spot a turd!!

Which is why I have so little margin for error when trying to keep a large and fairly varied customer base happy and therefore can't tinker with things by trying stuff that might not work - currently my hands are tied by our size, location, the economy, etc. I need to be realistic and pay the bills.


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 04:47 (GMT)

Anyway thanks to Chris and Al and Gary Ward for your supportive comments, we genuinely appreciate them and it makes the job a bit nicer when you hear them.

Forgive the detailed response(!) but I just wanted to reply to some comments in full now however it's situations like this that make me stay away from NWB more and more...

I'd like to say again that for most people on here this is your hobby or past-time but for us it is a family-run business which we work incredibly hard at in order to get by.

We don't claim to be some amazing live music super-venue, we just really enjoy live-music. Our customers seem to enjoy it. The bands that play us seem to like it as well. What's wrong with that??


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# Posted by TEX & THE HARDCORE TROUBAD... - 24/01/2011, 07:03 (GMT)

Great stuff !!! hope you are all happy, The Griffin decides to flee NWB and now Marigolds state that these type of remarks are keeping them away from NWB, so much fer KMaL, why bother tryna recruit new venues and encourage punters when we can upset and lose them with a stroke of the pen !!
all the KMaL hype and positivity this week has just been cancelled out in my opinion, well done guys !!!


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# Posted by Old Market Tavern - 24/01/2011, 09:30 (GMT)

Have to defend The Old Market Tavern.Pub landlords would die to have there boozer packed at weekends like we get at the Tavern Fiday/Saturday/Sunday.When it was stated that Altrincham was dead,that,s generalising and should not include the Tavern.Yes we do have an older audience in general but ask any band that play,s at the tavern about the crowd we get in and you,ll get a positive feedback.And to say stranger,s get funny look,s is a complete load of Bollocks it,s as friendly a pub as you could find and all are welcome.We do normally have classic rock bands on but we also have blues bands and have started to have some Indie bands on and also punk bands.So if that,s bad pub management then YES we at the Tavern are definately guilty.

Jimmy OMT


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# Posted by Idle Promise - 24/01/2011, 09:35 (GMT)

Tex like Gary said above not one other venue attended the meeting last week when people were trying to come up with ideas to help support these people and get more through the doors. I appreciate bands and venues dont like criticism but we go back to that argument of what this site is for. To not allow Gary his opinion and have a completely sterile site would drive many more away. I think both Marigolds and the Griffin should accept that this is a format for discussion as well as information and to say they are no longer coming on anymore is a little narrow minded. Obviously both great venues but perhaps its a case of them having got all their contacts etc now alot from this site so 'we dont need it anymore'. Its a pity Garys efforts last week are not appreciated opposed to the slating he has been given above. I hope neither the Griffin or Marigolds will take this personally but I hope they will look at the bigger picture before jumping ship although i dont quite know the reason behind the Griffins decision


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 09:46 (GMT)

@Idle Promise - Who slated Gary in this blog??

If you read his comments he's slated us but by his own admission has never set foot in the place.

I thought I gave a fair and measured response considering his tone towards us.

Also I didn't say we were leaving the site I said this was why we come on here less than ever. But if I was in the pub with someone like Gary spouting off opinions like this then I'd leave so why put up with it here - what's the difference?

As for us having got all the contacts we need from the site, we've been a member on here for approx. 6 years now.


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# Posted by Kingpin (Keith) - 24/01/2011, 09:50 (GMT)

Lindsay / Nicki, dont know which one of you posted but we see how much hard work goes into what you do there. Spot on responses! dont leave the site...why should you?


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# Posted by No Boundarys - 24/01/2011, 10:29 (GMT)

Marigolds has always been one of my favourite venues.
Gaz they have got it spot on and it isnt all just pissed up punters
as quoted. Some band memebers maybe..lol
The Hindley arms and Market tavern are two other great live music venues too, but as has been said these have worked hard and got there rewards for it.
I think the slating on this blog has been read wrong, Hulks point was bad management at venues who try to do live music.
We gave played a few in the past with Whatever...no promotion,etc and then they moan and stop the live music because they dont get enough punters in.
As Gary..cotton house shakers has mentioned, there is no need for a venue or person to take offence and leave, there are plenty of other blogs to read.
Keep music alive and Northwest bands alive.

Aiden


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# Posted by Idle Promise - 24/01/2011, 10:44 (GMT)

Again another pointless argument which has got out of hand. Gary has his point of view and not afraid to voice it which I applaud. We may or may not agree with him its his opinion. He does have another side to him which is trying to help bands venues and this site and everyone should applaud that too. If we take away peoples right to voice their opinions without a big kick off then you may as well close the site now because it will die a death. You gave him a slating for slating you which I dont blame you for although i think that was more directed at the bands and not Marigolds itself which is a great venue. All i am saying is we know Gary is outspoken so why does it kick off everytime he voices his opinion. By far the person who should be slated by you is hulk who basically said most pub landlords are shit at their jobs. Again his opinion and every right to voice it even if we dont agree with it


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 11:15 (GMT)

The 45’s have played twice at Marigolds and in my opinion it is run very professionally, it has to be when your clientele have already had a good drink before they enter the premises. On both occasions we were greeted and offered food and drink and the Doormen / Security guys have been accommodating. A huge crowd who are well behaved and a mix of musos and non-musos all ages and shapes, lol.
Marigolds is not a Classic Rock Venue the customers are more interested in Pop and Indie Music or any other danceable stuff. This is one of the SAFEST venues to play at. Lindsay and Nikki all the best for the future – KEEP MUSIC aLIVE !

Rick – on behalf of The 45’s, xx


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 11:16 (GMT)

You call what I put back a slating for him slating me? I took a fair bit of time to respond with facts or explanations, I didn't resort to insults - so if it was a slating then I used his own words to hang him with.

You asked why it kicks off whenever Gary voices an opinion, well maybe it's the way he says it which is often offensive and insulting. Sometimes opinions should just be kept to yourself.


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# Posted by Marigolds - 24/01/2011, 11:27 (GMT)

Look I know this blog isn't really going anywhere now so I'm gonna TRY and leave it at that for now. I just ask that people look at it from my point of view and see how Gary's words would cause us a lot of offence.

Trading opinions between bands is one thing but as a business we have to be careful what we say and what is said about us because there's no telling what effect it might have and this is our livelihood.

Big thanks to all the bands that have offered kind & supportive words on this blog tho!!

@Rick - Does that mean you're not a classic rock band then cos you were top when you played us - we just can't afford you anymore!! ;0)


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 11:34 (GMT)

Lindsay, do you remember contacting me about our repertoire when I had put "Functions Only" against the POP SONGS. We played ALL the Pop songs we knew at yours to appeal to your crowd and mixed in some Classic Rock. We have different set lists now to appeal to whoever books us. We should be called The Chameleons, lol.


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 11:36 (GMT)

Oh and Lindsay, PM me with your best fee, bands DO talk about fees and I'm sure you can afford us 80)


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# Posted by LAST GANG IN TOWN - 24/01/2011, 12:22 (GMT)

Slow Down Marigolds...
If you actually read what I said before you got all defensive you'll note I said I was speaking in General and only mentioned your place cos it was the first, of a few, that sprang to mind.....
It was nothing personal as I have never been to your venue.
If you think it was a direct attack on you then (a) you are wrong and (b) I apologise for any suggestion that I was having a go at you directly...read what I said properly and try to understand it before you judge me and throw accusations at me.....
I have NOT accused you of gloating on here...read what I said.
You say ''(I think I also resent you referring to my customers as merely every pisshead in town.) ''.....you may resent it but I note you don't deny it....
You also accuse me of being ''often offensive and insulting''....OFTEN !!!....get yer claws back in...you are being a lot more offensive and insulting on a personal level than I was.....
OK so you dont like me mentioning your venue, even though I was using it as a point of reference and not directly.....I'm sorry if I upset you but I believe people who read my comments with a clear head will not get the wrong end of the stick.....
EXPERIMENT OVER.....


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# Posted by The Blues Man - 24/01/2011, 12:43 (GMT)

I’ve never ran a pub, would never want to either, not for the life of me would I want to.
My parents had pubs and I lived in one for most of my childhood and right up till I got married
and left home.
It’s a bit strong to blame ‘bad management’ for the current problems experienced by the pubs themselves and for the lack of gigs at the present time. It’s true that not everyone can run a pub successfully but most people seem to think it’s an easy option to make easy money. Let me tell you now, it’s not, it’s a job that carries intense pressure to generate as much money as possible and the main drive behind this comes from the breweries. In fact running a pub is not a job, it takes over your whole life, 7 days per week, 365 days per year, you get very little time away from the business.
I don’t claim to have the answer but just wanted to at least defend some of the venues and the good people trying their best to keep heads above water and provide venues for live music.


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 24/01/2011, 12:48 (GMT)

Well as always my blogs get the community Buzzing. Right or wrong the original post was a valid point by me.

Marigolds is by far my best venue for playing at.I mentioned you guys and the others as your probably the 3 best venues on here across the various genres of music. I was just trying to give an honest opinion on the Keep Music Alive blogs/meetings.

I am a non Muso ( so I have been told) and probably the second worse singer on NWB but I have some experience on bands and venues having booked WHATEVER for 7 years previously.

Gary I understand what you were getting at but I didnt understand the time comments. 10PM start at Marigolds wouldnt work right now but it is a better venue for bands than anywhere else in Darwen and I speak from experience.
But if they changes there times to suit then I am sure it would still be as busy. There isnt alot of choice in that area so its a no brainer.

As for the haters you know where to go and if not I ll stick to the bullshit posts about licking everyone else arses which most do on a daily basis to gain popularity within the site. Or I could put blogs up about changing my name which seems to be the trend at the mo on blogs.

I am sure you guys can think of a few names..........

Peace out and remember a wise man once said:

'To be wholesome to your body is to be devil like in approach but a chameleon never changes his spots. We recall our school time with nostalgia and remorse because Roy Walker always said ' YOUR RIGHT'

The one and only Chuck Norris in WALKER TEXAS RANGER (1995)


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 24/01/2011, 13:07 (GMT)

Blues Man I am not having ago at the struggling music Venues as Aidy said above its the venues who decide to put a band on and not promote or do anything to help us or themselves raise the band money and keep them in profit.

Example WHATVER played at the DOG AND PARTRIDGE in Stockport 3 times last year at £250 a gig there was one poster up the first time and we brought about 8 people with us. We got told to turn down and wasnt anywhere near say Marigolds sound then we were put in a corner and were big lads so it wasnt ideal.
A poor venue which kept booking us . I personally would of fucked it off after the first gig but was outnumbered. We then proceeded to play there twice more with the landlord telling us we were to loud and not sure of a booking. When we contacted them again he said he we didnt listen etc etc. Due to his and his missus poor manangement the venue was a disgrace . Its alright putting bands on but unless you promote the nights and generate interest you get what you deserve. If you cant be arsed helping yourself why should you muso's?

Some previous blogs have been written about venues not paying bands due to the lack of audience after a gig. If a band were shocking then fair enough but not for lack of attendance that is not the bands fault its the venues.

I think that rests my case. Good point mate.


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# Posted by Idle Promise - 24/01/2011, 13:39 (GMT)

I think that was a better version of the the original post. Thats exactly why that mweeting was held last week with a very poor turnout and why Gary gave his time up organising it and chairing it. It was to try and help venues advertise and get more people through their doors which then helps bands by helping keep the venues going. All that has happened is to ensure some of us will probably not get bookings in the future at certain venues because we have put our point of view forward. Lesson learned never post on here anything that may be the very tiny bit contentious or open for discussion. Keep out of it if anyone else does. Ensure that noone wants to come on here because its become a site for selling equipment and stating where you are gigging at the weekend.


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 13:48 (GMT)

Community Blog Guidelines
1.Be nice: Even if you disagree with someone, you need to keep your tone civil and reasonable.
2.Keep on topic: Please keep discussions relevant to each topic and avoid multiple topic posts.
3.Don't Spam: Show restraint with your posting frequency. We're all doing cool stuff on NWB, but if we post about it too much, it can be distracting.
4.Respect the Moderators: The entire Community Staff were users once, just like you. We try very hard to answer everyone's questions, so please be cool.


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# Posted by Idle Promise - 24/01/2011, 13:57 (GMT)

Whos not been nice on this blog Rick ??


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# Posted by Synthy Mike - 24/01/2011, 14:09 (GMT)

I think it shows the interesting divide between originals and covers bands. I'm not about to start a war here - I'm just playing devils advocate - having done both covers and originals for several years.

As a member of an originals band we're expected to sell tickets and do the lion's share of the promo ourselves. We make loads of posters and get them in wherever we're allowed to stick one up, ten minutes work in Photoshop, a couple of quid in photo copies and a day ticket on the bus - the person who's nearest the town we're playing gets the job. We've got a mailing list to keep people informed, we hammer the social networking sites and beg and plead people to come to our gigs. For our London gig we're going to send some stuff down to friends so they can hammer the cool places and hopefully attract a few through the doors for us - plus we're bringing some down with us too on the train. We've not even begun to scratch the surface yet.

This isn't a moment for "Our Tune" off Simon Bates, we actually love it. Going out and nagging people and promoting ourselves, it's all part of the fun. I might not be saying that if it's pouring down with rain when it's my turn to give out leaflets and posters though!

To be fair to the Stockport venue you played at Hulk, they paid you a decent wedge each time surely you could've promoted it a bit yourself if the pub was a bit rubbish the first time around? Send them some posters, or just go in a couple of weeks before and stick some up? Get a shout out on Rock Radio or XFM. I hardly think it's worth a name and shame of the place. Maybe if they'd turfed after half a set and refused to pay you they'd deserve it.

The volume thing is a hot potato but a lot venues are stifled by the noise police, they can't help it if one of the neighbours has complained about them. Maybe you could've brought smaller amps for subsequent times? I know it's not as much fun as playing through a nice big rig but it's better than being told to turn down the instant the solo button gets pressed!


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 24/01/2011, 14:44 (GMT)

Synthy good points.

we did self promote the venue and ST popped in as its local to him. my point us why tell a band to be quiet when the pub is a cabaret solo artist venue. its also us booking such a shit gig. u learn we shouldn't have gone back fair comment mate


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# Posted by Synthy Mike - 24/01/2011, 14:54 (GMT)

Ahh fair enough Hulk, I wasn't sure what you meant!

I did used to wonder in my days in Dyehouse why you'd get the odd venue who'd book us knowing full well we were a rock band, playing loud rock music and then expect us to play the Killers or something blatantly a million miles from our setlist and knowing full well they were being stitched up by the noise police and decibel meters.


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 24/01/2011, 14:57 (GMT)

Cheers mike . I jump the gun at times on these blogs then realise I missed half my point but hope I am clear on this.


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# Posted by Roj (Black Rose) - 24/01/2011, 15:50 (GMT)

What awaste of feckin time.


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# Posted by Sandwich Slayer - 24/01/2011, 16:11 (GMT)

It doesn't need someones opinion on here for it all to kick off; All it needs is a venue or promoter to look for an originals band with small or no fee. Or for an originals band to offer to play for free. Or for a talented young band to make the mistake of using text speak, then they are accused of being a troll. Some venues will close because of bad management, some for other reasons. It can't all be because of supermarkets and smoking ban. As has been said; anyone can get a pub now, and some of em think you just have to be open and put on a band or karaoke. You need magic and luck or need to be good at running a pub; good at business; and good at running a venue if it's a music pub.


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# Posted by The Blues Man - 24/01/2011, 18:56 (GMT)

well said Sandwich Slayer, although the orginial blog (misguided and making a very generalised statement) was something worth debating the blog seemed to get into a debate on Marigolds and times the bands go on etc! You can't generalise and say it's all about bad pub management that's killing the music scenc, it's part of the reason, of course it is, as is the smoking ban, as is the increase in the cost of drinks.
A lot of people do think they can get into the pub game and think it's easy and they are going to make a load of money, it's not and sadly it only takes one bad landlord to close a pub for good.


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 19:26 (GMT)

@ Idle Promise Nige, Jez C picked up on it (back track)


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# Posted by Idle Promise - 24/01/2011, 19:45 (GMT)

Fair enough Rick but why didnt you post the terms and conditions then instead of after my comments. What was so 'not nice' about my post to be quoted terms and conditions. Just pointing out the obvious about having an opinion and people not towing the party line ie what happens !!


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 19:50 (GMT)

Nige, wasn't aimed at you otherwise I would have put @ Nige.

I even put it on another blog at random,

Rick.


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# Posted by 45's - 24/01/2011, 19:52 (GMT)

Anyway, see you later. "Come on you Whites" - DO IT FOR NAT !

rICK.


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# Posted by Chipps the Bassist - 24/01/2011, 22:23 (GMT)

Ok, i haven't been able to claw my way through the previous 79 comments, so ill just stick down my two pennarth here:

I can see where your coming from with the whole 'Pubs are killing the music scene' blah blah blah... but instead of complaining about it, should we not try and do something about it? Should we (as musicians/bands) not try to work even more closely with pubs and music venues (especially reliable ones) to try and prevent the music scene gong down the plughole? And shouldn't venues be trying to get the best possible crowd in on friday/saturday night? It's a two way street, at the end of the day.
Ok, so i know a lot of bands and venues are already doing this, but i just thought i would stick it down for all to read.

Neal :)

P.S. I too found it very hard to understand the original blog, but this is my best interpretation of it, sorry if its totally off topic! :P


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# Posted by george VI - 25/01/2011, 01:25 (GMT)

@ hulk. i have read your original blog, yes saturdays is a classic rock night and has been for the past 25 years, maybey we have brought it to light in the last 4 years, we started to promote sundays for any kind of music and we have got 40 different bands/solos/duoes/punk/pop and indie so why do you think that it is a joke. you have made good comments on us and praised us but i cant understand why you have put about our sundays ???? before any body reads my comment please go to the original blog and see where we are coming from. we stopped karaoke on sundays for live music :O)


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 25/01/2011, 01:57 (GMT)

If Hulk has been to your place on a Sunday when a rock band has been playing then he would perceive the "except on Sunday" belief as a joke....

Oh what do I know, I'm off to bed!


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# Posted by george VI - 25/01/2011, 02:01 (GMT)

@ TCS, i dont think hulk has been in our place on a saturday or a sunday, we went to see him at georgia browns and dee met him at a bus shelter, dont ask


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# Posted by 45's - 25/01/2011, 02:14 (GMT)

Fookin' Bolton 0 - Chelsea 4. WTF?,

8O(


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# Posted by The Cottonhouse Shakers - 25/01/2011, 02:33 (GMT)

@The Hindley - I won't ask.. hehe - just noticed that your upcoming Sunday gigs are Shredder, Mothers Ruin, Boneshaker and Burley Chassis.... maybe he just checked your gig list as well.

@Rick - well I was going to say something.... (smurking smugly as we hang on to 7th place)


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 25/01/2011, 05:28 (GMT)

Dave its not a dig at u guys at all. I mean that the average young punter probably see a. Sunday as the only night they can come in. For music lovers its every night at your place but passing trade may by pass due to the rock venue perception. I am 32 and I grew up on rock, blues etc but my mates didn't and I know they wouldn't come into your place because of there music taste but it never stops your place being busy.

I was trying to say being a certain type of venue works, u for Rock, Marigolds indie etc etc.

I was talking about narrow minded people not the venues. Sorry for the confusion. My tremendous wording strikes again.


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# Posted by george VI - 25/01/2011, 11:41 (GMT)

cheers hulk, understood, call in some time and have a natter


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# Posted by hulkamania78 - 25/01/2011, 11:47 (GMT)

Gotta come again soon. Aiden keeps telling me about Johny Meerkat so will come down there next on cheers Dave


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# Posted by the stories - 25/01/2011, 14:38 (GMT)

we played marigolds a good few times in our earlier days & we"ve gotta admit we did have some great nights there & we was as pissed as the punters some nights which made it better for some unknown reason ,but the late starts & the early morning home times & the stairs (those bloody stairs lol) got to us in the end & the chlorine (if youve played mariglds you will know what i mean no offence meant lol)watching the sunrise over darwen was a bit strange when we should be in bed lol!,but like we say a brilliant place to play if you like the late starts ,a great stage & we was well looked after every time we played there...we suppose there are good & bad venues alike & some gigs are better than others & sometimes you just have to have the right crowd on the night ..."the stories"...


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# Posted by The Blues Man - 25/01/2011, 18:42 (GMT)

I played in a band until about a year ago and then decided to give it a rest. I played in that band for 5 years and to be honest the early years were great, most venues we played in were packed or at least had a good turnout. As time went we began to notice less and less punters in the pubs we played, venues then started to stop live bands and the closures really hit about 2 years ago and we lost some of the venues we played in previously.
I used to go and speak to punters who were in listening to us to see what they thought were the reasons for the drop in numbers. Time and time again I got the same response, “it’s too expensive and we can get cheaper booze from the supermarket so we limit the times we come out now.”
On the site there’s a lot of talk about what bands can do, there’s finger pointing going on, “it’s the landlords fault,” “its bad management” etc. etc. I really don’t think this is helpful at all.
Here’s a thought, why don’t you ask the punters, just like I did, why are they not in pubs in the numbers that they used to be in the past? What would it take to bring them back in again?
As bands, you also need to take a long hard look at yourselves, who wants to go out on a Friday/Saturday night spend a fortune and watch/listen to a bunch of overweight, middle-aged blokes murdering a perfectly good song? What kind of a show are you putting on? Are you giving people what they want or are you just shoving the same old stuff down their throats? How often do you change your set list? How often do you introduce new songs? How often do you play a song that has been played at the same venue by the last six bands that have played there? Is your set list different to other bands that play that venue? Honestly, some of you think you have the God given right to demand a packed house everywhere you go and if it doesn’t happen it’s everyone’s fault but your own! Get a grip and take a long hard look at yourselves first!
I go to gigs, I support a local venue that puts on classic rock bands but like everyone I live on a budget, there are lots of other things that I can spend my money on that is as equally entertaining. So, if you want me to support you at your gigs then fellas, you are really going to have to work harder than ever before and give me one hell of a show otherwise, I’ll find something else to do or my money will stay in my pocket!


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