NWB - Community Blog

a good idea,

although most bands on the circuit know which are the best pubs anyway, it is usually the ones were you cant get a booking for love nor money.

but it would help bands new to the scene

nah, things always happen, and more often than not cancellations are followed by change of ownership, so to 'blacklist' say, Musicians Arms' in say, Liverpool would be a bit daft if new owner was ok

sounds ok to me,
but as alec says once a venue has replaced the villainous previous management/landlord with someone new all slates need to be wiped clean unless it has a problem with drunks / violence which would need to be monitored.

The thumbs up thumbs down system sounds good because you have to have a way to repair damaged reputation. The caveat to that being people tend to moan more than they praise and so a damaged reputation could be quite hard to fix.

very true steve,

it is human nature to moan rather than give praise. so a system that asks for plus and minus points would be best

as a venue responding could the same format work for bands canceling on venues at short notice which happens regular.
dave

i'm not sure it would make any difference. Those of us who have been on here a while probably know the dodgy venues and as with most bands there are aprox 20 long term and the rest come and go.

the result being that even if those of us who get gigs quite regularly may be able to pick and choose a bit, a new band on here will take any gigs they can get no matter what the reputation, we certainly did to start with :-)

Absolutely Dave - it would have to be a two way street.

I'm not sure if a public airing of what could sometimes be clashes of personaliry (I only say 'sometimes') would actually be helpful?

I know we talk a lot amongst each other and get to know the good/bad/indifferent venues (and bands!) through that..

Tread carefully.....


AYP

@Dave - think you'd be surprised at the results if you brought that in as well. We've got an almost running joke about a venue repeatedly asking for bands when they get last minute cancellations - and I swear, on at least 2 occassions it's been the same band that's pulled... and here's the punchline, they're still booked to play again!!! .... Now it's not for me to say how to run a business...
;0)

Peoples opinions on venues or bands are only 'their' opinions...
You could like a band I can't stand...
You could have trouble at a Venue that's fantastic for us...etc, etc...there are too many variables to have a 'chart' system.
Best we can do is just be honest.....say when a band was good or bad...say when a venue treats you like shit but also praise them when they've looked after you. But always remember ''it could be your own fault !!!''
I believe almost everyone is too nice (false in many cases)...nobody wants to slag off a band or a venue when really maybe they should share their bad experiences...but as long as a band or venue doesn't get a bad reputation based on one persons opinion, which could be wrong, unfair or biased anyway...
If your consistently honest then your opinions should be respected, good or bad...
Hey, if a blog came on here saying Dave & Dee had a go at somebody who claims they are bad people in a rubbish venue...who you gonna believe ???
Word of mouth and experience of the people and the scene speak more than any blacklist...er, in my opinion of course...
Just remember, when I end my gigging days I'm gonna spill the beans on a few folk on here and blow the lid off a few myths...until then, I gotta be nice, but honest...

I dont think this is a good idea!
There's many reasons why bands and venues cancel!
Lets face it it's happened to all of us at one time or another for various reasons,
It's not done for snide, theres always a story behind it.
everybody has hiccups in there plans and of course it's really irritating when it happens to you!
Whether it's due to financial problems or because your last performance wasn't up to the mark or because they just simply fancy having a different band on, or even you get offered a better gig for more money!
You cant have a name and shame without a full impartial enquiry!
Just because you get cancelled without an explanation that sounds acceptable to you doesn't mean there's a more personnel reason that the venue or band dont want to discuss with you!
just gotta take it on the chin and put it behind you!
innit a bitch though!!!!!!!!!!!!

the potential for defamation and slander etc is huge, so its a bad idea

its business sense for the venues on the circuit to get bands in that SELL DRINK and get people enjoying themselves and drinking more, thus keeping the pub going

opinion is always gonna be subjective, no exception and motives are rarely unselfish

weve all been pissed about(venues and bands) and done the adult thing and just moved on, even tho its made us really angry, word of mouth is better than anything(unless its malicous gossip)

Maybe a code of conduct for bands and venues to read and sign up to on registering a profile would be appropriate.

Things like:

If a venue has a band cancellation and posts asking for a 'stand in', then they should at least reply yes or no to genuine offers and remove or update the post when a replacement is found.

I'm sure the experienced community on here could think of enough sensible things to build up a list.

Persistant offenders could be asked politely to follow the code, then named and shamed if they constantly abuse.

Note - this is not a comment by the band - I'm one of the lads' dad who is on here a lot trying to find them gigs and having minimal success. Surely some venues like to give opportunity to new faces without expecting them to play for free (they are a pretty talented bunch).?

Steve.

I'm not a big fan of the idea. I have to agree with Robert Redfern that the potential for slander, defamation and general upset is too big a risk. I also agree with Al that it would have to be a two way street - and I suspect many of the bands would recoil from the idea at this point.

However, if people want to pursue it, may I suggest an anonymous 5 star rating system based on say booking, space, loading and community spirit for venues and booking, performance, attitude and community spirit for bands. That could work if enough people participate and would give a more general view of the communities attitude towards a venue that could not be jeopardised by any one person.

That way there would be no specific slander or defamation for Mr NWB to worry about and if people have an outlet for rating venues, it may stop some of the blog specific arguments.

Just thinking out load.

What I am saying is I don't agree with "naming and shaming" directly - every band/venue has their own way of dealing with things and I personally hate to see people calling for "name and shame", it really boils my blood. It's mostly gossip hunters seeking their next outlet. However, I can see the merit in expressing the communities (as a whole) views or feedback on dealing with bands/venues.

It is a tricky subject with probably far too many pitfalls to warrant Mr NWB spending an inordinate amount of time on it. Probably best to carry on as we are......waffle over :o)

Asa

James for every bad venue there are 10 bad bands. I wouldnt rely on any points system when booking a band. I dig around and get various reviews from diff people/ Why do you think i started my Gathering numbers post last month. No matter how bad the pub there is always someone that will play it. All the great pubs have good reputations and everyone knows where they are. If you are unsure of a venue ask Alyerpal for a review of it. If he doesnt Know im sure Ian from riff raff will have gigged it ask him. The best way is to honestly put a post on here someone will have gigged it!!

Wez

It sounds pretty complicated to me, don't know how it could work and be completely fair.

I kind of like the idea of rating venues with a tick box questionnaire, mainly cause it sounds like fun, but then how will the data be compiled??

Thumbs up, thumbs down is a simple way of doing things but might not always be fair....

You could have an ebay style feedback system, where venues and bands have a "feedback" page. I think it should the option to be anonymous though.

With any of these ideas (and especially the anonymous ones) you leave the door wide open for personal problems to spill out into the public domain.

Which one of us could honestly say they might not 'thumbs down' a venue (knowing no one would know it was you), simply because the bar staff had pissed you off for some reason or you didn't like the price of the drinks or it was just a bad night for you?

I think what we have going is pretty good.

Good venues get good press - great venues get better press - we have the occasional rant about the occasional venue - BUT most of us know which to avoid.

The best voting system is the simplest of all - don't go there.

AYP

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