NWB - Community Blog

We often gig with a sound engineer, for the price of a few pints having an expert manning the desk is priceless - particularly one who knows what we're after from our sound.

We have just got a great sound guy.

He has already improved our sound and is very helpfull with setting up and packing away gear.

Best wishes

John

IF HE IS GOOD IT IS WORTH THE EVEN SPLIT,

EVEN THOUGH A DECENT SOUND ENGINEER WILL LOOK LIKE HE IS DOING BUGGER ALL,

WHEREAS A SHIT SOUND ENGINEER WILL BE CONSTANTLY FIDDLING AND USUALLY F**KING THINGS UP HE MAY LOOK BUSIER BUT NOT WORTH THE MONEY OR THE HASSLE.

we use a sound engineer and a lighting engineer, they get exactly the same cut as the band. they give up as much time and effort as we do, so they get the same out.
wouldnt have it any other way.
they both are very good at their jobs, and it shows on the overall performance i think.

Marc.

What Marc said.

I do the sound for Off The Rails. This question should the sound guy/girl get paid the same as all the band ?. This question has been a quandary for our band in the past. Some members think yes they should get paid the same as the rest of the band and others don't. I did get paid the same as the rest of the band and I used to put in towards new p a gear (I own a 3rd of it) and towards the cost of the practice room and towards all other costs. But I also do the website,bookings, go to every practice session, I help carry the PA, put the PA up and look after the PA on all gig's. It can be very lonely being a sound person, out there on your own because when the guys have done the set, they all sit down not near the desk so I dont join them for a drink because you cant leave the mixer desk, and if you dont keep an eye on the desk some idiot will turn your knobs for you, I have had it happen a couple of times.

I now only get paid 10% of what ever they get paid still carry and put the PA up, but I don't go to practice only when I want to go, and I don't put into the practice room or any thing else, nothing is set in concrete if I wanted I could probably go back to getting paid the same I only need to ask.

I don't think that a sound person should get paid the same if they are only doing the mixer desks at gigs, you are either a full band member by putting the same commitment into the band or part member and only get a part share of the money.

Carole

We have now got a sound man and he's really good. Like you say he doesnt appear to do much except make sure that you sound good and that can be the difference between going down a storm or crashing out. As for the cut, well he doesnt own any of the gear or pay for anything except the odd pint :-), so we pay him 10% of what we get.

Cheers Mike

Being a sound engineer myself. I of cause know that a good sound engineer is worth every penny.
When i'm not working and i get the chance to watch a band playing theres nothing worse than the band being great players but the overall sound is pants. So the band come over as rubbish to the audience but i know there not, just a bad balance of instruments v vocals.
But the end of the day sound is a personal thing and what one person thinks is a good sound is not what another may think. I've been to many concerts and thought that what the sound guy was mixing wasn't very good. Joe Bonamassa at the Academy a few years ago, too much bass and drowned out the main man Joe on guitar. Then the exact opposite at The Doobie Borthers at the Apollo last year, no bass in the mix at all!
Makes me wonder how these guys get the job. Apart from knowing your way round a mixing desk and outboard equip. My opinion is that playing an instrument helps you in being a sound engineer as you know what frequencies certain instruments work at to enable the best balance of everything. One most important thing though is you must be prepared to listen and do what the sound guy asks. If someone is too loud in the band then he's not listening to everyone else and is not thinking of making his sound sit in the mix. Thats where we tell you to turn down, just enough so you can hear yourself above the drummer and everyone else can just hear what you're playing. Then let the PA do the work. If the band is not prepared to do this then don't get a sound engineer! Anymore questions?

Our guitarist Mark is a top sound engineer in his own right and ran a recording studio in Stockport in the 80's...he has great gear and sorts out all our sound and any problems...and has a van.
How do think he passed the audition...ha ha...

"Good" sound engineers are like rocking horse shit and are worth their weight in gold.

Many others who profess to be sound engineers (and I don't mean to upset anyone) do so as a hobby and haven't taken a sound engineering course, although there is a lot to be said for QBE (qualified by experience).

A good sound engineer will be twiddling and altering throughout the gig as more folk come in and the sound dynamics and acoustics of the room change, someone turns up on stage, different songs and textures, boosting solo's if necessary, adding taking out effects, if a sound engineer is just sitting there scratching their arse, drinking beer and farting all night then they are not doing a fair job.

I wouldn't pay anyone who is learning the ropes but on the whole an equal split is fair unless they are supplying the rig as well as expertise.

N

I personally dont see the the point in a sound engineer in a pub,larger venues yes.I recently watched a band at the Railway in Leyland,the bass player had a rig big enough for a stadium.We couldnt even hear the drums,.it was so loud.The soundman was oblivious to this.,Maybe because he had no control over the musicians who controlled their own volume anyway.So again,Whats the point?..
.....but it does look flash dunnit,glaring at the engineer pointin at yer lughole.

@wagontown.

I think your recent experience at the Railway demonstrates why a good sound man is worth it.

@Carole if you are doing all that AND paid towards the PA you deserve equal share!

Yes Black Thursday
I see your point, but how could even the best soundman in the world get around an egotistical bass player in
( a pub)...?

egotistical bass player in a pub? get them told. As our front man said the other week you either listen to the sound person their your ears on a gig or you might as while not bother playing if you don't take notice of the sound guy.

It's so difficult to get a good sound engineer, especially if people in your band are really particular about their sound.

I operate the sound desk for our band (as well as playing bass). The advantages of having a band member operating the sound are:

1. You know what the on-stage sound is like instantly and can adjust the settings
2. The monitors will always be nice and loud and you don't have to indicate for someone out front to put them up or down.

The disadvantages are:

1. It's really difficult to know what it sounds like out front. I normally have a set setting for the out front speakers and if I see anyone stepping back or fidgeting with their ears I'll turn it down. And our singer always does a shout out to check whether everyone can hear OK and we always say "if it's too loud let us know" to the crowd, and to be fair that normally works for us fine.

Personally, we're not looking for a sound engineer in the near future. It would be good to have one but our singer says no one has ever been able to get his on stage sound right except for me so I don't think he would want anyone else to do it.

We've talked about having a roadie in the past and always said we would give them £30 per gig + their petrol money as a set fee, but if we were getting over £250 for the booking we'd give them more. I think we'd probably do the same if we ever got a sound engineer, lighting person or any other extra team member.

I think incorrect use of monitors is to blame for bad sound sometimes.Ive watched some vocalists,
yes i say watched cos you carnt bloody hear em at the front.I think Off the rails bloke has the best
idea ,Walk around the room with yer mike and listen for yerself .yes we saw you as well .nice balance.

We will use a sound engineer for some venues, we usually slip them £20 and throw in a couple of drinks.

If your sound man had set up all the gear in the first place and then help pack away and take back to the rehearsal room as well as attending rehearsals to learn the set then he should get an equal split.

The sound is always so much better with a decent engineer although I always prefer to set the monitor levels myself and once done leave well alone, have only ever had monitor issues when there has been someone playing with the desk.

Bob

I would happily take one on board as I've found we have magic volume fairies at our gigs that make some instruments louder as soon as the gig starts!!!! lol

:0)

If youv'e got a good sound person on the desk your'e lucky. They should get an equal shake.

Most bands do a sound check with either the singer or guitarist wandering round at the back of the half empty room and running back to the desk and running back and listening again.

It's all bollocks because the moment you get half a dozen bodies in most venues the dynamics change. With someone sat there monitoring the sound all the time this problem is addressed. If only you could stop the volume fairies (Jez C)lol.

And get more than half a dozen people in!!

By the way Carole's worth her weight in gold and I had no idea she'd taken a pay cut. 10% is outrageous...CJ

"If only you could stop the volume fairies (Jez C)lol. And get more than half a dozen people in!!"

cheeky bastard!!!! LOL!... we've had double figures one night!!!! ;0)

Sorry Jez I meant our lot not you..OMG I'll get me coat...CJ

@Extras - It's ok.... I've calmly picked up my toys and put them back in the pram!!!!

:0)

1. invest in some decent speakers/ PA that can handle the sound of ur band or the sound ur after when ur all going through the system with room for extra welly if u need it
2. use ur backline amps only as backline amps - no point getting the 'mix' right out front if ur then competing for sound onstage
3. start ur desk from scratch and once the settings are right don't "roy" about
4. try not to have the whole band + 3 vocals going through 1 small monitor...it can't handle it
5. designate 1 person to be in charge of desk...everyone else HANDS OFF!
6. follow this and you won't need a sound engineer ...spend the cash on a new more powerful system

speaking as a friend matey luv ya man xxx

2 'rules' from me as a playing sound guy:

1) Don't take a knife to a gun fight (get the right sized rig in!!)
2) Keep your partners away from the sound guy

That's all you need for a happy BE!!

we were playing a few weeks ago and one particular instrument was pounding through and it was getting late - near start time, so I lost my usual friendly persona and pointed out that I wasnt coming through. The offending musician (suspected of causing Tsunamis that night down under) begged to differ. Cue solo me - feck all!! He swore blind he could hear me and it turned out the miked speaker on my 4x12 wasnt even working!!! Had to laugh!!

:0)

Always keep your sound engineer happy.

I agree with Carole, we've got a mate doing our sound and we sort
him a few pints and he's happy. Once the sound is set up properly there's really
Only a few tweaks to make to adjust for the crowd and any specialist requirements on songs.
The band put in the rehearsal money, equipment, time etc. Our tech helps out at gigs. He's great and we miss him when he's not there but we can function without of needs be.

We try to do only two gigs per month (it always ends up 3+ though) and once you
Split the money it only really covers costs of travel, rehearsal room, equipment and beers so splitting it a fifth way seems a bit steep unless they contribute to the aforementioned.

We had a sound engineer pal come and show us how to get the best sound and he said that basically you
Should get your sound right then adjust it for treble loss as more people arrive and then leave it the fuck alone unless you are doing anything complicated, which most pub covers bands aren't.

most "sound engineers" are guys havin a go or just happen to own a PA , and no disresect to those guys, that was me when I used to do the PA hire stuff, a lot of PA guys in pubs that have thier own rigs arent as on the ball as they could be, and some are great , Tim at the Artisan is great, and he doesnt fiddle all the way through the gig , and he lets me play from backline, which i prefer , we dont use anyone on the desk just set it and play, a lot of the time engineers do my head in, in fact I just tell em if the guitars not loud enough out front and they dont sort it ill take the mike off they cab an wind the amp up so I can hear, it sounds a bit arrogent, but its our gig not the sound guys, if the sounds not right out front it needs sorting, end of day punters think , bad sound= bad band

He's vital to us our engineer. When we can drag him along it really helps us big style from a confidence point of view. We often play on the same bill as several bands, most of them just guitar, bass, drums so when we turn up with all that and then five synths(!) in the wrong hands it can really end in disaster. In our case our engineer also produced our album so he knows us inside and out and the dynamics of each song.