NWB - Community Blog

stuffed up, mic'd up, then bashed the f*ck up.

regular pillow stuffing touching both heads tho only slightly on the back one, that works for the sound I like and suits our pa settings: -) dont really suppose it matters how you accomplish the sound you want so long as ur happy with it

Tried and tried and tried to get a really good, clean sound without stuffing, then did what I knew I was going to do and stuffed a pillow back in.

Job done!

AYP

back in the day-tried it with and tried it without-best sound i ever got was with an ex-r.a.f greatcoat, just clear.

Pillow, bear crusted old t-shirt (I really must remember to wash it), lunch box (including 2 bananas and a can of red bull) and the band's back drop.
All in, sounds great!

Tried pillows (killed the sound), tried curtains (moved around too much), tried dead prostitutes (bit tricky to carry around discretely)..........then tried no muffling (too much resonance).

Then I tried one of those "ridiculously overpriced EQ pillows" and it works perfectly. Just enough pressure on batter and resonant head.

@ st-dude!! you KNOW that iffen you want stuffing a LIVE prostitute is always the better option!! lol!! :-P

sorry, tubthumper...............................................................


i'll get me leathers

I recently posted a blog about people knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing. That applies here. The EQ pillows cost more than they should and more than any of the other solutions suggested here. But it works. And the value in that is that I've found a solution that meets my needs and I get the sound I want - that to me is priceless.

Meh. Not so much a beloved EQ pillow as just passionate about my sound. Bordering OCD to be fair, but if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right and it's worth spending a little extra to get the exact sound you're after. Wouldn't you agree?

Besides, when you're in a band with a group of guys who are equally passionate about their sound and have spent more then sensible amounts of cash striving to achieve it, it seems a shame to let the side down.

One of our many former drummers was once casting round for something to damp his bd with having forgotten his usual manky old blanket. He ended up using the guitar players' brand new Hugo Boss jacket, suitably screwed up into a ball and stuffed up against the batter head. So, if you think those eq pillows're overpriced...

oh yersssh missus.....got to be stuffing every time; I find a bit of the old Paxo sage & Onion does the business for me....

But to be serious for a mo, I just use a couple of old towels folded so they sit on the bottom, and just touching the front head. Then of course, it's down to your preferred method of miking up.....but that's probably a whole new blog.....

Pete

@The Cheating Hearts - That's the funniest comeback I've heard on here for ages. Nice one centurian.

If a drawn on Evans logo gets you the sound you're after, then it would be a shame not to.

I hate to break it to you, but I don't think drawing an Evans logo on will make any difference whatsoever. Give it a little try though. Bless.

at the school where i work eq pillows would be a complete waste of music dept budget, hence they stuff their bass drums with the thick strips of polystyrene that you get to protect flat screen tvs from being bashed about....sayin as every class that does music has access to an apple mac to use in lessons, im thinking thats a lot of stuffin!
i gotta admit, it sounds bloody good though - i might nick some lol!

What colour towel is it?

AYP

Okay, well in that case I won't tell you it should be blue.......

AlyerIknowwhentokeepmymouthshutpal

Anything soft 'n' fluffy works for me! Against the bottom of the batter head because I don't have the front skin on. Of course, when I'm using the electronic pads I don't even have to think about any of that stuff.

Talking of over-priced drum accessories. I paid £80 for a Gretch drum carpet and was most disappointed when it arrived and I found out how small it is. It's just about big enough to fit the bass drum on and that's it! Rip off!

I use EvansEQ Pad they are quite expensive (approx £20 inc postage) but they work really well and really do enhance the bass drum sound.........so why scrimp on the cost of an eqpad after you've forked out silly money for a drum kit?.....go figure (in my best american accent!)
:0)

mmm colonic irrigation each to their own, i'll stick with my eq pad.... ps a blind muffling test conjours up some rediculously naught images in my minds eye! ha ha

hope you don’t consider this blogjacking, tubthumper, but your post has got me pondering....do the modern gizmos such as eq pads , mixers, equalisers, monitors etc (light years ahead of anything available pre 1980(ish)) give percussionists a certain amount of flexibility insomuch as they are a “one size fits all” regarding the differing sizes and shapes of the venues bands play and the differing requirements they present?

these days percussionist have, in my view a superb range of electronic gadgets to help balance and control the sounds, although, the majority of drummers do, of course, apply the “seat of the pants” approach to sounding right(?). back in the day the best one had was mic, amp and speaker-end of. fine tuning involved finding the correct amount of padding for the given place-and sometimes just hoping for the best.

don’t misunderstand me-I’m not on an “eeeeh-when I were a lad the simple things were best”-they weren’t-sometimes it was a nightmare getting it right – specially in some venues where you’d be playing on a solid flagging floor or timber stage that could make it sound like you were being accompanied by rolf harris and his wobbleboard if you didn’t employ a serious amount of padding under your kit or a churchhall or working men’s club.

no-I watch with admiration and not a little envy when I see bands today do their sound check to a half empty (or empty) room, get the mix right, then when the place fills with sound absorbing bodies, tweak a few knobs and dials and bring it right back again.

I just wondered how you all manage your gear with respect to those dilemmas these days?

@ tubthumper-again-in all seriousness-hell yeah ! to that-i've seen so many "drummers" over the years who, instead of relying on"feel" and experience to play have banks of electronics in front of them that would grace the starship enterprise-and still sound like they were playing a wooden barrel.

i do envy the quality of kit available these days-but-as you so rightly point out-the best "kit" designed is ears and "feel" -the extra with the electronics is a bonus to be used only when required? and, of course-the more sophisticated the more to go wrong?

and don't get me started on electronic kits-although i know drummers who really like them. each to their own?

mine was a full premier (circa 1970) toms, bass, hats, snare, etc-vox amps, marshall speakers, two mics -played just about most venues with her-back street pubs to uni's-all i ever used was a variation on packing/tightening-, checked it out with the rest of the band and then watched how the audience reacted.

one thing i wouldn't miss though is needing muscles like garth to carry the wooden marshalls with STEEL frames and valves instead of circuits around at every gig!! :-D

one other observation-i'd love to see some of these young whippersnappers trying to operate the "double kick" wearing 5" platform soles and 24" flared trousers-i did-(soon stopped, though -was sustaining serious calf injuries and my ankles were starting to bend in ways they were never designed to!!) :-/

don't tell anyone-but i had my (then) girlfriends lacies between mine!! lol!! worked a treat-in so many ways!!1


p.s-with the toms- i was lucky-i'm a time served engineer-had access to a fully equipped fabrication shop-saved me a fortune..

Without reading all the above posts .................................I have the answer to your problems.

A certain Mr Ian Paice, showed me a trick many many years ago (and ive never seen anyone else do it - or get as good a sound as I get from my 22 x 18)

I will get you some pics

Inside the drum we (me and Ian ;) ) have a large peice of accoustic high density foam.

un folded it is the length and width of the inside of your drum, your remove one of the heads, force in said piece of foam and it holds itself to the inside (pressed against the wood) of the drum.

This removes all ressonance, all clicking, all vibration then coupled with a nice Senheiser e901 you have the ultimate bass drum sound.

sound enginners will love you forever.

The mic is amazing also - runs rings round the AKG's etc (must have phantom power for it)

I hate the sound of undamped bass drums and there are always problems at sound check, you end up moving the mic, moving the pillow/damping device etc etc I never have any of them issues.

damn good blog, by the way. ;-D

Just to rewind alittle to Vikings comments, I think one of the biggest advantages we have now is that an 'intermediate' level kit that is not way beyond the budget of most players now, is probably as good (if not better) than most 'professional' kits of less than 20 years ago.

Not only has the technology for making shells and bearing edges got better, but it has also surpassed anything that was previously possible.

This means we are playing kits for around a grand that would have cost three times the amount twenty years ago (and been worth even more in monetary terms) amd probably sound better.

Like most of you (I would guess) I still have the problem that the bigger the drum gets, the harder it is to tune it 'perfectly' without any overtones and without it resonating to all the slight harmonics of all the other drums (this is especially apparent when the kit is mic'ed - who hasn't hit the bass and chased round the kit to find the tom that is 'singing' in sympathy?). With toms that isn't a mjor problem; alittle bit of moon gel judiciously applied will damp them without killing them, but when you get to the bass?

It is generally a lot easier to have a 'dead'ish bass and engineer the sound in via the desk if you are mic'ing it up - this cuts through all the other problems and makes things much quicker at the sound check stage.

I used to run my Gretsch bass double skinned and unported when I played without mics.

Now I would rather get a good sound through the PA than spend an hour trying to EQ the thing to suit each venue, so it is ported and 'stuffed'.

On another note though - why do we have double skinned toms which we mic FROM ABOVE the struck batter, and yet we mic our bass drums from the resonant head?

Hmmm - might try that at the next gig.

AYP

Was thinking of adding something but feel I'm a bit too late to add anything meaningful.

@ sliver dogs-i doubt that, bro-go for it.:-D


@ alyerpal-damn right, dude-the kind of gear that is available now-and affordable?-way surpasses anything we could get near to-and, as you say-i've watched TOP bands in the late sixties and early seventies who had nothing like the equipment most bands play venues with now, as a matter of course.

yet-can any of this technology ever supercede that "seat of the pants" experience and knowledge of the human player?-i say not. it helps-but a tap on the skins with a finger can tell a good percussionist far more than an electronic "ear" can, methinks?

by the way-@ markk-(vankwish)-brilliant idea-just one small problem if i was still playing-i can't stand the feel of polyfoam-like nails down blackboards to me!! ;-(

@ tubthumper- "@ Silver Dogs - since when does "meaningful" matter!? Take a look around and you will find that sensible conversation never lasts long....chip in...."

too damn right-you got "comment 42"!!! sob!!! ;-(

'fraid so-and severe "anal retentiveness" as well-but that's not important right now-it's the "forty two" that is-"hitchhiker's guide" an' all that-answer to the question of "life the universe and everything". ;-(

@ tubthumper-awww- thank you!! you've made a 21year old old (not a typo!)man happy-bit weird living one's life by the words of douglas addams,probably-but, hey- i've seen and heard far worse in my time. :-D

"silver dogs",by the way is one of the best percussionists i've seen. outstanding thwacker of skins. top dude too! ;-D

nahhh- i haven't seen my ex brother in law for years.:-D
as for the cyst-only one thing to remember there-

Kill em n mic em !!! simples ;-)

@ tubthumper-not from me-what goes on between a gurl and her surgically removed bits and pieces is purely a matter for her, i reckon-plus, of course-as when i get told to "get in touch with my feminine side"-i never mess with things i don't understand. ;-/

@ tex- " Kill em n mic em !!! simples ;-)"

would that be the guy with two heads or the cyst???? ;-P

put me down for another "pillow & drum mic combo" please!

John

Come to this blog a bit late but what the hell will shove my thoughts on the matter in anyhow...
Bass drum sound is totally subjective to individuals as I see it. I have read loads on the subject over the years and tried out just about all of it as well (apart from the expensive EQ pillow!) some things I liked and some I didn't. The die hards will say you shouldn't dappen the bass drum at all, they say as long as it's tuned properly then the drum should be allowed to speak. Tried an open bass drum (and yes mine is tuned) but it isn't for me. Too much resonance and the batter head isn't responsive enough for my liking. I play some fast double licks and with an open bass I find these are lost. Personally I use a polyester filled pillow (found the feather ones a touch too dead) length ways in the drum with the majority resting on on the batter head and the other end just touching the resonant. This makes the batter head (currently an Emad2 with the full ring on) nicely responsive and punchy with each note clear. This wouldn't suit everyone but it works for me, whatever works for you you should stick with (as long as you've experimented). Incidently, I don't use any dampening on snare or toms.
After years of sticking the bass drum mic inside the drum, tried it on a stand just inside the port last night and thought that made a world of difference as well.

This subject comes up on various forums every so often, and it really depends on personal preference, and what you're trying to achieve.
Personally, I'm totally bemused by drummers taking a £1k bass drum, demanding that it's undrilled, and then proceed to stuff it with pillows/duvet/any other laundry - you may as well play the case it came in. That may suit a front of house engineer, but an undamped bass drum with full reso head gives a far better feel than something that is totally dead, and it's the drummer, not the engineer, who has to play it. I'm currently using a Spaun kit with an 18" bass drum on a riser to increase resonance, emad batter head (with external muffling ring) and an EQ1 (it has tiny holes around the edge) on the reso side, currently unmiked. I'm often commented on about the sound, and how big it is. This is down to the type of heads used, and careful tuning. A competent engineer will also be able to mike it up successfully, without getting excessive boom.

Rob (now with Night Train)

I'm with you on this one Rob. Like you I have spent a fortune on a dog's bollocks maple and walnut 22x18 howitzer. I use Remo powerstroke 3 batter and Ebony reso, unported. Why would I want to stuff next weeks laundry in it?
If I need electrical assistance I now (following a chat with Almepal) place the AKG egg on the batter side approx 5 inches from the point of impact. I am a very fussy tuner because I like the whole kit to sing sympathetically. I have found this system works well for me. Even if you have a beginners or intermediate kit you should get the best heads you can afford then tune them carefully. I think the next thing you should do is thrash the livin daylights out of em. By God it does you good..

All the best CJ

@ tubthumper - yes pretty similar, mine is solid though, no cut outs and is the exact depth of the drum

@ Viking, me too, was tough putting the foam in, I hate the feel - but rubber gloves and job jobbed !

Just another quick one, seams im a bit of a minority on here with my drums, I always mic the resonant head on my toms ;) the mic's just get in my way on top !!!!

The whole P.A'd bass drum sound, I love a dead feel through a heavy PA, you must be able to feel every kick in the audiance, we fully acheived this with the Sennheiser boundry mic this year.

Mark

Acoustic very little
Mic'd something against both batter and resonant head.
Dampening also enhances top end 'click' as you can get more level out of the mic hence more eq feq to toy with...

All depends what your 'micing it' through to too..
You'll struggle to control the head resonanting from causing a low hum through the PA.

Virtually all top live sound engineers use triggers to control the rumble and boom...