NWB - Community Blog

you`ve got a point there

When I used to gig, the booze was always free. You mean bandspay for it these days? /damn.....

Absolutely spot on...

R

You’re not missing anything, you’re absolutely right, but, Re: cancellation fees, you’d have to start getting contracts signed by both parties and if you shove a contract under someone’s nose at the point of booking they’ll bottle out of the gig anyway so that’s a non-starter except for corporate events. Without a contract how would you get the cancellation fee out of them? The most effective way would be to hold their head underwater but in these politically correct times that might be seen as ‘bad form’, besides, cancellations work both ways, where would the venue stand if a band/artist cancels with little notice albeit for legitimate reasons (illness, breakdowns etc).To answer your question, yes, you're supposed to just take it on the chin… it’s a fact that sometimes you’re going to get cancelled, it’s a pisser but it goes with the territory. Being a musician/band will always be seen as a ‘hobby’ or ‘having a bit of a lark’ and some venues think they’re humoring you if they give you a gig. I’m off now because I’m starting to waffle.
MN

Well said!!! Not had many gigs cancelled to be fair. But the most annoying one is 'sorry we're gonna have to cancel that date because we're double booked'!!!!! how do you double book two bands on the same night!! Do these people not have a pen and paper?!?!? Grrr!!!

Ste

@ F&TBB (can I call you that?)

Yes they do have a pen and paper and I've often wondered how I get double booked, especially if i wasn't double booked when I dropped the posters off a few weeks earlier! It's amazing how often that happens...I've never double booked myself! I think it's the only excuse they can be arsed to give after all, what're you gonna do about it? Bad-mouth the venue on NWB? They're not bothered because they Know how much the acts need the work...I'm waffling again...bye.

MN

Most private jobs that I take on behalf of the band I always get a deposit for, just had a cheque for £150.00 drop through the letterbox this morning for job we're doing in December. If the booker is confident that the event will go ahead they're more than happy to send a deposit of the amount you request.

Jobs that I get through various agencies have other complications, if I was to pull the band out of a gig with less than 6 weeks before the event and the agency put another band in to cover but that band cost more than what we had charged, I/we would be liable to make up the difference, not the booker/venue.

However, if you can supply a doctors note to back your reason/s for not going ahead it does make things a little easier.

Now if a booker/venue cancels the gig within 6 weeks of the event, they too have to either pay the whole fee or just part of it, but from experiance, the agent/s will pass the book and tell you that it isn't there responsability to chase up the booker/venue for your fee, that job is down to you. Read the agencies small print, they always cover themselves.

So, in the past I have had to take this route in getting a cancellation fee, sometimes small claims court is the way to go and I have always been successful.

But if no contracts have been issued and you cannot prove that you were infact given a definite gig there isn't an awful lot you can do, apart from send the heavies round....

Lee :)

It is, when all said and done, and for MOST people, a hobby.
(That'd be an interesting figure ... the percentage of full time bands/artists on here ... I reckon probably less than 10%)

Shit happens, throw the toys out and move on.

If you've seen it happening a lot lately, I can promise you it's gonna happen a whole lot more

@ Willow,

You're probably right, for most bands & other outfits it is a weekend hobbie etc, but like myself and possibly Mick Nash?, it is a job. So every penny counts, cannot afford to have venues ducking out and not paying up.

Most weekend warriors stay reasonbly local, which you have to do if your fee is no more than £200/250 otherwise it isn't worth going out of the house as the chancellor takes most of it..

For my band, it is a job so we have to go were the money is, Birmingham is a local gig these days.........:)

Lee :)

Lee, fully concur mate, that's why I said 'MOST' ........

But if you're full time you really should be doing contracts as a matter of course anyways so the point becomes moot.

Without pubs...'pub' bands would have nowhere to play...end of.
There are pubs that put bands on and then there are 'music venues'...pubs 'geared up' for regular live music...
Hey, it's easy for us to turn up at a pub, plug-in and play to a ready made audience...but don't forget these pubs are open 7 days a week and work a lot harder than i do just to survive...they don't just open for 'our' gig...
Yes, it's a pisser when they stop bands or cancel...but try to look at the bigger picture...we've ALL experienced cancellations, it goes with the territory...
Why not put your own gig on...hire a venue...hire bar staff and stock a bar...hire door-men and someone to take door money...print tickets and posters...advertise...etc
Hard work eh, and if you clear £200 on the night let me know, 1990's prices maybe, but cash in hand for a nights work.....so yes, take it on the chin, through gritted teeth of course, but take it and move on, a little bit wiser for the experience.
Reality check for all bands...the world does not revolve around your band...

If I was in the House Of Lords now I'd be going ....

Hyaaar hyaaaar, huzzaaaar!

@ LGIT,

My father up until 3 or so years ago was putting on 60's shows with named acts of that era with a wage bill of at least 2k to 3k just for the artistes, the room was free as they were getting the bar.

So he would have to sell 200 tickets at £10 a pop just to break even as the venue in it's original guise used to hold 325 at a push, so anice profit was to be had if you sold all seats. That wasn't always the case, I have know him to have to put £500 or sometimes more out of his own pocket to make up the short fall, luck of the draw.

We don't participate in the pub game so taking it on the chin isn't something I want to get used to, I can't tell the bank manager to take it on the chin so don't see why I should. However, if you're aweekend warrior with a fulltime midweek occupation then the blow isn't as critical, just means you will have to wait another week before sinking a few Stella's and cranking your new amp up to no. 11.

Lee :0

@ Willow,

Contracts for us is the norm, always email and post 1st class recorded so no excuses, if I don't get a signed copy back the gig gets scrubbed from the diary and hopefully another takes its place.

Lee :)

another hyaaar hyaaar!!

horses for courses as I'm sure has been used on this site more than any other expression
(apart from "fuck you!")

LOL

what if we charged for bands not turning up we loose a lot more money, when everybody has walked out because the band could not be bothered to let us know they are not coming we also understand that the bands work very hard for what they get payed that is why me and dave buy drinks and also feed are bands because if you have to pay for drinks then pay for food on your way home it does not leave you with much of your fees left, but i also dont agree with bands playing for free then coming here for a booking and asking me to pay them to play in my pub, and i am not talking charity work. well you had your rant i have had mine so i will go now Dee.

Lee
Sorry mate, didn't realise you we're a pro...
Maybe my comments we're aimed at us mere mortals, or weekend warriors as you call us...and you're after sympathy...

Wasn't putting anyone down, not after sympathy or need any. I know my job and what to do in the event of gigs being pulled, it does happen to us "pro's" too............... :)

Just a lot more at stake when it does happen, but, that is the nature of the business.

Lee :)

Some good points there 4most Wanted,...(I wouldn't be whoring myself, playing all sorts of shite to pissed up dickheads) I couldn't agree more, there's no reason why you should, you've got to believe in what you're doing.

Top & bottom of it is that cancelled gigs (at short notice or otherwise) are an occupational hazzard and nothing more. I've been gigging since the early eighties (full-time and part-time (currently full-time)) and I can confirm that things have never been worse and show no signs of impovement any time soon. That said, I find it's a case of swings & roundabouts, yes, too many cancelations (I've had one since this blog was posted) but some last minute stand-in gigs which have become regular venues.
I sympahtise with every act who gets let down by venues but, as I said earlier, cancelations work both ways...it's a tough business for everyone concerned ..it's always been tough.
MN

If you make a verbal contract it's just as binding as a written one, as long as you can prove it. Pros like the Kasuals can pursue a cancellation fee but how many of us declare these earnings to the taxman (or job centre)? If you don't it's black market (or fraud) and you haven't a leg to stand on and shouldn't be crying about it. You're already making a bonus above those who can't get away with it.

John

"how many of us declare these earnings to the taxman"

do you mean there are bands that DON'T???

good grief! No wonder the country's in the state it's in!!
Outrageous

:0/

Well we do, of course... :)

What a lot of venues/promoters do to avoid paying a cancellation fee is to offer you another date later in the year or following year depending on date of initial gig, this is totally legal. However, if the future gig fails to materialise then you're well within your rights to pursue a cancellation fee.

My father's band was playing at a 60's event along with other named acts of that era over in Skegness about 4 yrs ago, one of the lads at that time had driven up from just north of Birmingham to our house nr Preston, so he'd spent at least £40 on fuel.

They drove to Skegness did the gig, it was full to capacity seating 500 persons at £25 a ticket, the arrangement was for the booker to pay the agent but on arrival all bands were issued with a cheque.

It was safe to say all cheques bounced and nobody got paid except the DJ, all bands pursued to take the booker to court but she was already being hounded for monies in excess of £100,000 so on that occasion everybody lost out.


Lee :)

@ Lee
The above proves that entertainment is a business and, like any other business, people get ripped off occasionally. It doesn’t make it ok but it does prove that it's a business and has to be treated as such.

MN

@ MN,

There are probably more crooks in the entertainment business than any other, errrr, except the legal fraternity and the commons................:-)

Lee