NWB - Community Blog

Absolute...

Any one carrying a passenger ?

Extra abso-bloody-lutely|!
dont have this problem anymore but have been there and dont ever wanna go back!

Great blog mate!

Reading the first half sounds like me! I have 3 kits (2 inc 60s Ludwig kit never get used) and an electronic one.

I also have a full PA system and in a previous band i carried a full drum kit, drum mics, vocal mic, mini mixer and monitor speaker, just for me. In addition to that i also lugged around 2 Hisys 2's, main mixer, 2 power amps, vocal effects and crossover! I ended up with a loaded car and trailer!

Why did i do it?!!!

Hell fire, If Ringo was dead,he'd be turning in his grave.HaHa....T.

I'm a singer and our band bought the PA. I'm also a drummer and have full kit for drumming. So here's my view on it. Everyone in the band goes through our PA. We have all bought our own instruments, which can be played whenever we choose (some drummers may not be able to play at home but can hire a practice room and besides that's a whole other area). You can't play a PA on your own. Drum mics and separate mixers etc go in with our PA equipment.

As a singer I've bought a Shure wireless mic, stand and effects unit myself as I see that as my equipment. We all agreed that the PA is for the whole band so we paid for it out of gig money and when we sell it and the lights we'll split it 4 ways. If someone leaves they get bought out, which means they need to give notice so we can pay them off.

Obviously if it all goes tits up and we fall out there's potential problems but there's no way I would buy a full PA myself, store it etc to only use it when I'm out with the band and when they all go through it. There's also a lot of gigs where we don't need it.

I'll buy new cymbals for my kit etc but the PA is used by all and paid for by all.

Ben
The Villains

I guess we all chose our instruments when we first got that urge to do something musical, and in that vocalists get their kit a bit cheaper than the rest of us, but we made our choice.

We only ever consider a PA when we get round to playing in a band, and as we all mic up it usually means that the band buys the PA as we all get the benefit.

I beg to differ here-not all frontpeople are showy offy people. I am the frontperson/singist because I wasn't much cop at anything else & no one else wanted to do it!! I actually bought & (carry about) our amp. Also own a vocal pedal & lug a monitor about which is God damn heavy. Of course the mic & stand go without saying-even got an old fashioned Shure 'Elvis' mic for show and recently purchased a snazzy light-for the band. I have to admit though, the band initially bought the PA system with mixing desk & our speakers are a 'band' venture. Still probably in a minority though I agree ;-)

im the oposite im the singer and id rather own the pa incase people bugger off i carry the lot set it up with a bit of help from the lads bad side i have to unload it at my home to store good point is if i sell it its mine i learned double bass because double bass players come and go like the wind in my type of music sometimes i wish i could just turn up plug my bass amp in and away i go its hard work as you all no but at end of day i run the band dictate that we have top gear and never have to worry about someone breaking down who is carrying a bit of the pa

+1 for PA = band responsibility. I'll keep it simple - it just seems the fairest way to do it, since everyone uses the PA. And yeah, singers probably have the least equipment to supply outside of the PA, but thems the breaks.

Notwithstanding that:

From: Now, you wouldn't take on a drummer that didn't have a drumkit would you?
To: Are singers just so confident in their own ability that they don't feel the need for gimmicks?

I don't see the link.

So if you're a kazoo player do you have to chip in to the PA or are you fine because you've bought your instrument?! Pmsl

I'm the singer and I own the PA :0)

Yeah, but you're a special case G. In many, many ways lmao x

# Posted by The Villains - 22/08/2011, 21:02 (GMT)

So if you're a kazoo player do you have to chip in to the PA or are you fine because you've bought your instrument?! Pmsl



I reckon you could wing it if you do a decent solo.. :)

@The Villains - Any kazoo player worth his salt would simply stand alongside the singer and push him out the way when it comes to the kazoo solo lol

ST ur right there..G IS special!

So where do gimmicks come in? Not being awkward, just trying to understand.

Are you asking why singers don't invest in additional kit e.g. vocal effects etc? Is that what you mean by gimmicks?

Ok Al ....I've upgraded my PA on several occasions to try to get the best possible sound for the band, but it had to be portable and fit in a car. So I suppose I was eager to get the best for the job. I have also changed my radio mic 3 times

Special skips

@Alyerpal......I understand that you wern't getting at front people, what I was trying to say, is that us musos buy loads of gear, whilst vocalists are born with theirs, hence cheaper cost. Now I know vocalists can spend a small fortune on developing their vox, and a whole lot of time and effort too, and we're glad of that, but in the first instance they get their instrument for free.

In that case, I don't know. But you're right, singers don't seem to be attracted to toys and gadgets as much as other musicians. Beyond mics, simple effects, maybe in ear monitoring I don't think there's much that a singer can invest in. Maybe I'm being naive?

That's also based on the premise that the PA is a band liability and not the singers. I stand by that.

I'm not saying this applies to all cases cos it does'nt. I've known quite a few people form groups on the strength of jam nights. I used to do an acoustic double act, which was based on the idea of transporting as little gear as possible, so that on jam nights we could try stuff out at minimum cost. With acoustic jam nights you do not need to reach the same volume requirements as you can with a full group. I think jam nights are a good way of meeting up with local talent, but it does seem to be those who use instruments who tend to already have the gear in place once a band forms.

they could at least make the effort and buy latex vegetable suits like peter gabriel!!! lol

@Jez - In like Flynn with a smart quip. Bravo sir! But if our singer did that, he'd be out on his ear lol

@ Alyerpal This blog is asking 'why don't singers WANT to own the PA'


I am a singer but not in a band or as a solo, i own my PA,amps,an 8 and 16 channel desk and i prefer to own all of my gear, i have worked as a Solo vocalist as well as in bands, if i do get back with a band and they just happen to have a bigger PA than mine and prefer to use that then i will go with the band, I also do the sound for a band who use there PA, my amps,my 16 channel desk and my 24 channel multicore, as from Christmas i will no longer be working with the band as sound engineer but they will still have full use of my gear when they need it.
however i can understand that not all singers can afford a full PA or a vehicle big enough to carry it in so i am sure there are alot of vocalist like myself who do own and prefer to own there PA

TWIDDLER

Just for the record I watched a band last week and the guitarist had splashed out on a kazoo.

I don't get the 'vocalists are born with their instrument' crap. If they're born with it then lets see how they get on in front of a band without a PA. A guitarist could say, i've got my guitar so if you want me to play in your band you all have to chip in for the amp!
Similarly a drummer could argue they don't need to go through the PA (but we do cos we've usually lugged it there!!!).
A lot of bands playing smaller venues only put the vocals through the PA, therefore surely the PA should be bought by the singer?

As i said, i own a PA, mainly cos i just wanted one.

Wow, where do i start on this one!!!!!!
For a starter as a singer,
In ear monitoring,
2xSM58 beta a mikes
Lost count of how many stands ive gone through
Then....
Bought my own monitors now used by the other guys,
2x500watt peavy monitors
1000 watt carlsboro amp
Im beginig to worry myself now on money ive spent so i wont get into the 3 mixing desks i own, all the lights ive bought.
The 3 guitars, A marshall stack 2 drum kits, bass, keyboards, bongo's tambourines
Oh, and the home recording studio
Yea Al mate. Think ill be a drummer
Lol. Xx

no tambourine though!!! lol

Pmsl,,
Nice 1 Al,
Can i have
Alsnumberonefanyapal

On it please!!!!
Lol.
:•O

In a similar vein (I hope!), in many of the bands I've seen (including mine) it's not the singer who mixes their vocal on the desk, let alone has anything to say about the band sound overall. I don't get that.

There are exceptions of course - I remember a band in the 90's who are still on the circuit now under the name of In At the Deep End (previously "Desire") who had an amp that could be preset to certain mixes and they meticulously created mixes particular to each song in the set and then could simply select the "patch" for that song - but even then it was often not the singer who pushed the buttons!

Also, Les Walker in International Rescue does his own sound (and that of the band ie in terms of setting volumes etc) and the quality of their sound speaks volume for his ear in doing so.

@AYP yeah I take your point. :0)

By the way, got all that fookin stuff, and dont have a clue how to plug any of it in.
I have normal people do that for me!!!
Im above all this setting up stuff
Pfft!!!!
Pass me my ice water with cucumber please!!!
Xxx

ha ha ive just bought another drum kit so thats 3 ive got ......doh!

Oh well if we're counting drum kits......I'm well into double figures...in fact I don't actually know off the top of my head how many I own.

I'm still looking for one that plays right though. There's always something wrong with them that makes them play out of time, or out of tune....you'd think the drum spods would have sussed things by now with the technology available to them.

I've got 11 guitars, 4 amps, a piano, a drum kit and 2 PA's. I've also got 10 hand drums (African and turkish styles) and lots more.

If Mrs Cottonhouse ever threw me out I'd be knackered!

Now let me guess - AYNOFP????

Al Yer Not On Facebook Pal?

As a singist that does not own a pa, I feel for all you guys that have to buy loads of gear. But if you break a stick, drum skin,string, pedal or even an amp, you can replace them quite easily. I on the other hand cannot ! If I damage my voice ( some people say I already have ) I cannot buy a new one ! Whilst I agree that the warbleist has the least equipment to bring to the party, they have the most to loose ! ! So please be kind to us " gob on legs " as they give your band it`s VOICE ! Sign language, mime or even semaphore don`t really cut it in a live situation . And I pull My weight with the gear, no prima donna stuff from this guy.

lmao...Al..don't give Marc (vankwish) another free banner...he got enuff ouua my splash cymbal!! only kiddin..he's commin on great guns as a drummer!

due to the odd lesson or two! ;-)

as for gear!! well thats another story...............

where me compo chq!! damned insurance companies...takin there time! lol

My gear list just makes my head ache. I keep meaning to thin the collection.
http://www.crazeeworld.plus.com/general/gear_ian.htm
Must add the new 5-string bass to the page...

As to singers and PA's, It's nice if a singer comes with a PA, but sometimes I've found that people who
can sing don't - as a matter of course - kit themselves out with a PA system, as they go along, as a
guitarist or bassist naturally would, with their gear. Some do, of course and thank God for them.

I own two pairs of PA cabs, mainly because we all sang in the band that used them. The drummer owned
the PA amp and mixer. It's just how it turned out.

OK I get you Al, I've already said why I don't WANT to own the PA so here's what I've done on vocal development and I'm sure there's loads of singists that have done the same.

I bought a second hand Eventide for my vocals, it gives you compression, FX and the usual stuff but most interestingly it provides a vocal harmoniser. Problem is; its really a studio piece, it's bloody heavy, takes a load of set up and you're in danger of 'auto-tuning' your voice as it has a correction facility within it.

I also tried an Art FX Processor with foot board to get some psychedelic sounds (digital delays with a little flange or phaser thrown in for good measure) great for doing our own stuff as I got to tinker with whatever I wanted vocally and some FX also set the style for the vocals which had a huge impact on writing.

Cover's wise I ended up with a basic echo chamber, it's got the delays and reverbs I need and for most covers that about all you need.

Apart from the usual vocal lessons to make sure you are using your diaphragm and not so much throat, learning warm ups and breathing exercises etc. I can only upgrade the microphone and basic FX.

I am looking to get the Zen of Screaming to get some top tips and further vocal training but I guess that's only the same as any music lessons.

Top and bottom of it is, I don't think there's really a whole lot of vocalist can do to invest in their sound. Once you've found your voice it takes time to develop not really lots of money.

So why don't singists invest? Who cares? We all have a job to do and we all choose what we want to do, some come with more financial investment (although anyone could play with basic gear if they didn't want to) and some come with more effort.

As Keef Richards famously said in his book 'life' "It still amazes me how Mick manages on stage, he must cover miles the amount he moves around and add that to the singing; I had a go myself and I was knackered"

Different types of investment maybe?

Ben
V

Im a singer and own the PA and lights and Bck drops, ( Made by the signmaker himself) - however, the other guys investing in a bigger desk, so I sold my smaller desk, but the bins mids and tops - three amps plus spare amps and smaller practice pa is all mine, Monitors - along with crossover and enhancer and digital vox effects. These are all pieces I brought along + all the extention leads and jacks speakons etc. However I kinda agree that really the mic and effects are my bag and the rest is for the band as a whole so have I added more than my fair share??? ... but then any repairs the guys have helped and thats the way it should be.

holy moley, what a blog.

Well, i'm front man and rhythm geetar and i own p.a. and lights as well as book the gigs, send the posters etc etc. But i guess i'm just a control freak who needs to learn how to let go....... 46years in, gonna struggle with that LOL

plus, all the gear's mine if and when things go tits up

Getting a singer to buy a PA!!! It's hard enough trying to convince most of them to try out different mics to find one that suits their voice the best!! And I don't mean 3 different SM58s either!

I take the point about voice strain, but my response to that is that this is usually caused by insufficient monitors, which should be a singers responsibility.

As far as I am concerned (PA and lighting owning drummer and sound guy) the singist should at least bring Mic (decent one that suits them), mic stand, monitor, and any bizarre effect they want to use!!

Everything else is a shared resource.

I own the PA as I was sick of being in bands that sounded like chewed arse, and was lucky enough to be in a position to buy a decent rig, as well as having the knowledge to run it.

I have the desire to buy all manner of gadgets and gizmos as well as the right mic and PA for my voice. Would love to have my own of all of this - would love the cash to do so first as well. Will get there at some point lol

There are a few pedals that I have looked at - for harmonies mainly, but I don't need that with such a talented backing singer who drums a bit ;) I would still look into getting them for solo stuff when I get round to pursuing that but I've seen them used in full band situations where the singer seems to hide behind the effects and forget about things like projection or singing in tune and this puts me off a bit, i guess in case I get tempted to do the same.

As an instrumentalist (i use the term very loosely here) I get my hoarder fix through acquiring many things that sit around not being played much or at all - mandolin, ukulele, harmonicas, violin, tambourine, shakers, djembe, keyboard etc. I even had a zither lying around the house for a while. It even got tuned once. ;)

I own half share in our full P.A system. It cost 6k by the way ;-)

The rational behind this is that the band bought it and as members have left I have bought their share out as I couldn't afford to buy it all at the time. The band all go through the P.A.

I have a Sennhiser radio mic and base unit (Cost £400 new)
A spare Sennhiser radio mic ( Cost £200 new)
A spare Sennhiser cabelled mic ( Cost £150 new)
Compressor unit (Cost £300 new)
Midiverb 4 (cost £150 new mind you it was 20 years ago now)

I spend hours getting the delays and effects that Phil uses live even down to getting the correct delay times on such songs as In The Air etc.

Think that is enough for now ;-)

Best wishes

John

Generally I think its because they feel its a band effort the mic and monitors are the vocalists personal equipment - Just my opinion