NWB - Community Blog

I suspect wind up now! :D
Have you replied to call me diva and Dom Blair yet??

this guy got out of his shed...

Good luck wth your £40 acts, fully understand your predicament

Is it only me that feels insulted by a venue offering 40 god damn quid for a nights work ?
put the jukebox on and stop insulting members with this ridiculous chinese sweat shop wage.
Musos must stick together and stamp this out.
Before you know it , some act will accept this , then the pub down the road will start giving exact same fee, then, the pub in the next street , then the landlords mate in the next town..... its an epidemic!

I don't normally wade into these discussions, but having read the other thread and now this, I gotta say....wow! Rude, arrogant and condescending...way to get people coming playing in your pub.

Firstly, I've worked in the pub game and I know how tough it is. But you know when you run a pub and everyone thinks you do f*ck all except pour a few pints each night? They don't see you locking up at 3am at weekends, back up cleaning the next day at 8am, being in a cellar taking a dray delivery at 7am, ordering supplies, going to the cash & carry countless times a week, tilling up, going to the bank, paying wages....etc etc etc. Pretty frustrating when the regular punters don't see or appreciate all that isn't it?

Oh hang on - that sounds just like being in a band. Everyone sees you up there enjoying (most of the time) playing to a pub full of people from 9pm - 11pm. But they didn't see you loading your car up at 5pm (after changing your strings/buying new sticks before the gig at £15 a pop). They don't see each member putting £10 of petrol in his car and driving 40 minutes to the gig. They don't notice you trying to unload through a pub full of people and finally getting away gone midnight, unloading again, and finally being home gone 1am. Oh and of course they miss during the week when you're paying £30 to hire a practice room, lug all your gear down, rehearse the songs (after, of course, spending time at home on them). And then of course the thousands of pounds worth of equipment...I could go on and on.

Doesn't look so black and white now does it?

Yes, of course people on this site do it for the love the majority of the time. And 99% of the people on here will do their bit to support live music and venues. But we like to be treated with a bit of respect and appreciated for doing so - not talked down to as though for some reason WE are responsible for keeping the pub trade alive???? A number of economic and social factors are contributing to the decline of pubs - it certainly isn't our responsibility to be the saviour of pubs, and even if we all went out and played for free every weekend, it wouldn't stop pubs from closing their doors.

So do us a favour, get down from your high horse and quit your bleating about how hard it is for you if all you are going to do is channel that into childish surliness because we won't turn out for naff all to play your pub. You haven't got a right to have live bands on for bugger all, and we certainly aren't obligated to turn out and play each weekend - so maybe bear that in mind before you go off ranting?

@ rocket
VERY WELL SAID !!!

@flying dutchman could I suggest that when you post blogs in future you ask folk to PM you directly and tick the box that says "do not allow comments".

In fact I'd go further and suggest you delete all you have currently posted and replace them with a new "no comments allowed" version.

JOKE!
Do yourself a favour get some bands that contain kids that are starting their first band and pay them the 40 quid they might be happy with that, dont try to put bands on that contain people that have been playing for years or decades for an INSULT that you offer.
Weve played gigs and cut our price if the pub is struggling sometimes because a lot of the publicans we
play for we also consider our friends and it is a case of "you scratch my back an il scratch yours " sometimes but this , well no other word for it apart from "JOKE".
If you cant afford to have good quality bands on dont have any on.
Unless you want crap bands on then pay em 40 Quid but whats the point of that.
"Go back to our sheds?" think you are out of yours, how condescending can you get?
Who claims to be a big time band ?
Land lords have a hard enough job this is true but do you actually think a bands work is just an hour and a half to 2 hours on stage, do we forget the loading up and travelling time and getting home when its getting daylight sometimes apart from doing the gig and putting up with piss heads etc, all for forty quid BARGAIN ! Oh but we dont do it for the money do we
scuse me now potting shed is calling!
Paulo

@ Rocket

Couldnt agree more pal.

I understand what the venue is trying to say however I think the way they are trying to put their point across is fuckin disgusting. Anyways, Im goin back in my shed its cold out here!!!!!!!!!!

By the way that would be £8 each for us that haha, it would cost more than that in petrol

If anybody wants me i'll be in the shed.

Well well...
Reading through this and the other blogs...

...its a "Sign of the Times"...what's that other saying..?... "Divide and Conquer" ..hmmm...

As stated here by Rocket - Once one pub starts and gets a 2/3/4 piece band to accept £40 and play, other venues will start....and the rot sets in.

But as also mentioned on the other blogs - whats the difference between venues offering £40 and Jam Nights, every time muso's join in for fun...there adding to the "Trend" and rot sets in.

Soon "Play For Free" and at best expenses only - £50+(4-5)drinks per act, will be the norm.

And I have to laugh ...it wasn't that long ago a lot of members were fully supporting a guy who was ex-muso starting up a "AGENCY" because he was out of work...who when pressed couldn't give any venues ..but reading between the lines it was the very same pubs you all currently play in. And as you've seen an AGENT currently working the nwb pub sceen taking 12.5 % cut off your shrinking cake..

The problem is "Sign of the Times" and NWB site by its very existance allows the communication of thoughts/views etc to be openly talked about (that's a good point) but there is no thought about the impact of comments or views in the interest of the bigger picture...sustaining the gigging market.

Another words - The end is near, and by supporting such parties as Agents, Jam Nights or £40 quid deals...your bring the end on sooner.

hmmmm

@MrNobody

Gigs

No Gigs Found


Repertoire
No Songs


Fuck off you gutless chickenshit.

Bit harsh Mick, the guy's only stating his viewpoint. FFS no wonder people don't stick around here for long.

Isn't he allowed his viewpoint? You wouldn't speak to any of your favourite regulars like that!

D

Unless I'm missing something...

@Dean, "he's" a troll account. Only sticks his penis in threads to try and stir the pot. He was logged out 5 minutes later. It's a regular who hasn't got the balls to show his true colours.

@ B H Mick .. hahahahahaha !

@Mick - in that case my bad. Never understood why people have these troll accounts. You must be NWB's 'chief troll account spotter'. How the feck do we know nowadays whether we're talking to a 'real' person or a 'troll'?

D

@John, that was not aimed at you. It was aimed at Mr Nobody. I have no problem with you or what you're doing. That's for others.

@Dean, nah mate, I'm not the only one who spots them. Trolls pop up from time to time. They are basically little children in "adult" form who haven't got the balls to stand by their statements up front and hide behind alternative accounts fiddling with themselves. It doesn't really bother me WHO their "real" owners are. It would apportion some importance to them, which what they are desperate for anyway.

As long as they are in here trying to annoy people at least they aren't hanging around the primary schools. ;o)

No worries John.

With regards to that agent, we did a gig for him last weekend. Indeed it was quite good, in a friendly pub run by former licensee of the Railway in Bromley Cross. Very accomodating and a great (packed) audience. Cost us 10% which works out at a fiver a piece.
Seeing thats less than a packet of cigs, was more than worth it...unless people on here are so skinflinty they can't afford it.
Good luck to him.

What's all this about jam nights? The people who run the Jam nights get paid...... I play jam nights for free cos I can go out and have a drink and just use all their gear, no work involved for me at all, just the fun bit. You don't see me lugging my own PA and Amp to a jam night...........

@Mick - thanks for the heads up, I shall try to be more 'troll alert' in future. Having said that, whoever MrNobody is, I can't fully disagree with their point about other venues following suit & offering rediculously lowered fees to a point where standard band fees are so low, it's uneconomical for a lot of bands to continue. Who knows...in a years time it might be us with no bookings whilst still trying to hold out for our normal fee.

@Dean,

I completely disregard the opinion of anyone who hasn't got the conviction to come out and state who they are, but whatever. I'll take yours on board. He can get to fuck.

@Mick
I'd go along with that fella. Opinions & views have a lot more validity when you know who you're dealing with.

well good luck guys if you agree with him obviously you all dont have to pay for petrol and earn enough not to be bothered about being paid even close to what you are worth as musicians and all the years it took you to get there.Yeah mr nobody is chicken but you start jumping aboard the gigs for nearly F##k all then you will be helping to put a nail in live music coffin.
Once again £40 is a JOKE
you get what you pay for in life ,dont know about you guys im no Paul Rodgers or Slash but me and the lads in our band passed the £40 mark a long long time ago
Why the F would you undersell your talents so much?
Next time im near the flying dutchman and im a bit skint but fancy a pint il see if theyll sell me one 70p
and help out musicians
JOKE JOKE JOKE JOKE !
Paulo

Re: Mr Nobody - The end is near, and by supporting such parties as Agents, Jam Nights or £40 quid deals...your bring the end on sooner.

I know that Mick can be a bit harsh at times but until Mr Nobody says something a) constructive b) sensible ..... Then I can't disagree with him.

Ok, I'll stick my neck out now and say that I'll come down to Stockport and play an acoustic blues set as 'Mr Cottonhouse' - no backing tracks and it is the blues so 'no singalong' but the offer is there. I have a few Fridays available and I could promote my solo act in a different town and not be out of pocket. PA supplied as well, yes I'll do it.

Well we've been here before with venues like the Cotty haven't we? Though they were offering £120 (three times as much as this) and still got the same reaction.

I've said before that fee is a matter between the band and the venue. If you don't wanna play for £40 then don't play for £40. But I don't think I know a single band (good or bad) that would go out for that so I can see this venue really struggling to find any acts to put on let alone decent ones.

Fair enough the point has been made that maybe this would be better suited to new bands, young bands and ones that are struggling to get a foot in the door. But, assuming these bands have a view to working most weekends for your average NWB fee like alot of the more 'established' acts on here, £40 is still a very poor fee to be offering. So the fee has, to my mind, all but ruled out any band (old or new, good or bad) that would even be able to play a whole night and keep your punters half way interested and keen to come back for the next one.

So this really only leaves young bands and originals bands. Many of whom won't be able to fill a whole night. So what then? You could look at 'unsigned nights' as it were with several bands but that only spreads the £40 even thinner.

I can appreciate that pubs are struggling and times are tight and so on but its just as tight for bands and alot of your initial comments seem to ignore that fact. You will find that the vast majority of bands on this site and elsewhere will bend over backwards to support a new venue and help it get live music off the ground. After all if it leads to repeat gigs then its in everyone's interests.

BUT one point to consider is this - would it not be a false economy to only offer such a small fee that the fee kills it before its started? As the old saying goes it takes money to make money.

So I'd like to offer one or two constructive suggestions.

1. Instead of having a band on every week for £40 a time why not try once a month to get things going? Then you can offer £180 which is a more reasonable fee for many bands and your response will be alot more positive. In fact you will have offers from more bands than you'll know what to do with if I know this site at all. Hell we'll even come down and play for you for that for a first gig.

2. Follow the smaller, original bands idea but, as said above, you might struggle to find bands with enough material to fill a night. So offer somebody say £100 - £150 to run a night and put several bands on a night for you? Do this once a month and you can build a fairly decent venue for new original music.

As I say just two ideas to consider that will help you get off the ground with bands a bit easier. I don't agree with the way some people have reacted to your blogs but at the same time I can't say I'm surprised. To be honest mate anything less than an offer of £150 will get pretty much the same reaction from some these days.

Well said stonecycle , good ideas,
But its not just about the price ,as you said bands struggle financially as well
and though he said (tongue in cheek i imagine) that he was sorry to offend any band
condescending remarks like "get back to your sheds" dont sit well with me.
I would never in a million years begin to tell someone how to run a pub, i know theres more to it than just pulling pints a hell of a lot more its real hard graft.But at the same time if you think im not gonna react to someone who is not a musician telling us all to stay in our sheds if we dont wanna play. well mate in not 10 im 45 and been around long enough to know when a venue is genually asking bands for help or taking the piss and if thats asking bands for help in that condescending manner id hate to think how he talks to his customers.
And all you bands that were willing to play this place for £40 you are either desperate or not very good or loaded whatever the reason you are not doing your fellow musicians any favours playing into this landlords hands.
If you cant afford something you cant have it , if a venue cant afford to put live music on then get a jukebox or put on ( though it kills me to say it) Karaoke. like ive said previously weve played for less than the going rate before if a venue is struggling we have no problem with that, we need them and a lot of them need us, but seriously £40 ! think someone needs a reality check
like i said is he gonna reduce the price of a pin to 70p to help out joe public in this recession
Once more JOKE JOKE JOKE!
Paulo

Ok I'll play ;-)

I have no issues with you setting a fee however low that is perceived to be and asking bands to play for it. That is between you and the bands that wish to gain some sort of exposure.

What I do object to is the condescending attitude that you display here.

The "Sheds" crack just wound a lot of folk up on here and seeing as you are basically asking them to play at your venue so that you can increase your profit margin, you should at least be a little more humble and contrite when you ask this.

It is not bands fault that four pubs a day are shutting down, but as many venues here have pointed out it is other factors out of your (and the bands) control.

Some great idea from the chaps here about trying music not once a week but once a month, so perhaps you would be well advised to bear that free advice in mind.

While we are on the subject though, I still have not had a satisfactory response from any venue as to why a pub HAS to take 3 to 5 times the bands fee to break even??? Surely if a band plays for £200 and the bar taking are up by (let us say) £300 then it's a win ???

Not wishing to start a war with any venue here, just want to honest know the reason why this is the case... Is it a brewery thing????

Best wishes

John

Why dont venues have a (lets go back to the 90s night) and charge £1.50 a pint?.Surely this would make it more even for the bands who go out for 90s prices ie £40 - £100 every gig.......T

Our first ever Metalleeka gig in Oct 2009 was at a place on a thurs night where we got paid £50 for a 50 min set.
We used it as a tester gig to a)iron out any kinks, b)not put any excess pressure on us(which it did anyways cos every man and his dog from NWB turned up pmsl) and c)allow us to get an idea of the overall sound out front.
If you think of it more as Market Research for new bands then why not.

So, personally, if I was in a brand new band just about ready to start gigging, then why not take up the offer to get out there and "test" your material and your equipment.

Although, I would say tho that if the band do pull in a hefty crowd compared to what you would normally get on that evening, surely the decent thing would be to up the fee, or, as some venues have done in the past, pass a bucket round and give that to the band.

All the best
Scott

Well said Scott ..i was there too at yr 1st gig ...... if yr a new band / have new PA to test or want a warm up reheasal for new songs etc instead of paying rehearsal fees its ideal opportunity ....+ you dont know who mite be in the audience n get more gigs elsewhere ...... with AIM we did 3 warm up gigs for beer money late last year when we formed and have got paid gigs out of it already so don't see why all this bullying going on .....!!! now dont hit me .... !!!! Ian

Good to hear a venues point of view and their mark ups - as bands we genuinely dont know the figures.

Isnt the band fee written off against tax expenses though?

Flying Dutchman

Although I still think you made a mistake in your original blog, I thank you for that explanation. As
I said what you choose to offer as a fee is between you and the people who will take you up on it.
I wish ALL venues and bands all the very best for the future
John