NWB - Community Blog

if you play music, you're a musician.. doesn't matter if you pay the bills with the money you earn from it or not - that's irrelevant... people should be proud to be a musician, full stop.. in a world full of criminals, rip-off merchants and assorted bastards, it's an extremely noble thing to be :) don't lose sleep over this 'semi pro' bullshit... call yourself 'a musician', end of story

Spot on.

There is a lot of talent out there that deserves being called exactly what they are semi-professionals.

Equipment, dedication and ability is often better than a lot of pro bands can offer.

There are also many reasons why people won't take the risk of being fully pro but it doesn;t diminish their talent in any way.

Don

I'm a bass player. The only prefix I've ever applied to that is crap!

Know what you're saying though - I get really wound up when folk call my staff technicians, no, they are IT Professionals. Words cause more trouble than they're worth :-)

Well I'm proud to be a Weekend Warrior (except when we do an odd gig on a Thursday!)

I think the term 'hobbyist' is used mostly between ourselves to distinguish us from the peeps who NEED the money to live, but if it bugs you, don't use it!

AYP

I'm a hobbyist. I don't count myself as a musician. I'm just a bloke who plays a guitar. Even though I have some music qualifications I have no qualifications in guitar, no dependency on the income.

To me that defines a hobby. I have no problem with it at all.

Whether you're a pro, a semi-pro or an amateur, best of luck.
MN

It's a very subjective thing really and not worth getting upset about, my opinion is different in so much as calling someone a musician if you play an instrument is spot on, whether you can be considered a professional or semi professional musician depends on whether you consider it a "job" so to speak in which case gigs and going out performing becomes that and takes on a slightly different perspective and reason for doing it, equally I believe to be considered semi or fully pro you have to be registered as self employed also and pay tax and NI on earnings which is the professional part,.

I guess for me the distiction is "weekend warriors", and I've never used that term to describe anyone, are those musicians who perform and play in band primarily for the fun, social aspect, enjoyment and pleasure of providing entertainment and don't really care what they get paid for it as it doesn't really matter or effect standards of living, whilst a pro or semi pro musician considers the gigs and rehearsal time etc as "work" and pays tax and NI on earnings and will have to find alternative sourses of income if they don't earn from it.

Agree same effort goes into it all.

It's only a perspective and I can fully understand your frustration and also respect yours and everyone elses opinion on it, it's a good point to make.

N

I'm with you on this all the way. I don't think there's any distinction to be drawn between pro and otherwise. If you play to a standard that means that you get paid to do it then who is to say which amongst them are professional or not. And even that's too simplistic as it precludes the originals artistes who's standard of performance is often far superior to that of some (many, even) covers bands and to discount them as not being pro's on the basis of non payment is daft.

The problem seems to be to me that in some cases, not all granted, people think that just because their only income comes from music this means they are a pro musician and somehow on a different plane of existence than others. Just because you give music lessons and gig as much as you can does NOT make you a pro. I count myself among those. My only income comes from teaching, gigging and renovating drum kits. In no way do I consider that I am any different than any other musician who may hold down a 9-5 job and then gig at weekend. It's all a matter of context. My teacher, mentor and now business partner does exactly the same as me but on a much larger scale and has gone it since he was 15 - he's a pro.

It all smacks too much like territorial pissings. I'm not even really a musician. I'm a drummer. But since I can read music and can play a minor pentatonic scale on guitar I'm going to teeter between both descriptions.

I tend to avoid the word pro, by the way, and describe myself as full-time because I don't want to imply that anyone who gigs for fun has a less-than-professional attitude.
MN

unfortunately the word "amateur" has taken on rather derogatory connotations over recent years-yet the TRUE meaning of the word is "someone who does something for love" as opposed to "for profitable reward".

there has been many a professional who has rued the day they came up against an amateur-usually in sport-dedication, passion, skill and, yes. love -for the art/passtime/sport/trade are not the sole preserve of the professional, methinks. ;-D

You`re right Viking.

That's why I like 'Weekend Warrior', because it describes my relationship with my gigs NOT my musical ability.

@ wifey - I've never heard anyone apart from ourselves use the term 'hobbyist' and TBH I think Mick from Naughty Pony coined it a while ago.

I agree with the 'pro', 'semi' point though and especially 'amateur'.

I'm nowhere near good enough to ba 'amateur'.

:-P

AYH

I aspire to being 'amateur'

I shouldn't be commenting, and instead re-read Cottonshaker's recent Blog - more positive, life and music affirming...

...but @ Gypsy, I too have been niggling....In 33 years of being 'some form of musician' from student (no pay, or paying to learn), amateur (orchestras, jazz, rock etc), poor paid (shows, some orchestra 'semi-pro'), full MU rates (playing, and teaching for Lancs CC)... ...and now in full circle, improving on another instrument...

I'm not a 'hobbyist', 'cause I'm not making a replica Gasparo de Salo double bass out of spent Swan Vesta matches FFS! I've worked hard at music in my time, got some certificates, fun pictures, memories and a few thick heads to prove it - life got in the way and stuff changes - now I'm getting back at it.

I think someone (Mr NWB) needs to make a call as to whether I'm trying to be involved in a community website that has decided already it isn't a place for me. If so I hope and guess that the 'good folks' i've met in person would still be that - but wonder whether some of the 'nay sayers' on here are folks I've bumped into and assumed are decent... ... ...

Ian

Like I said its all a matter of opinion and a very subjective subject so likelly to be disagreements and agreements on what pro means.
I don't consider myself to be on a different plane for saying I consider myself to be a professional musician or because I associate the word pro to mean occupation or having qualifications to that effect, and I'm not going to defend that as I know full well there are other people who have different 9-5 jobs who are far better drummers than I am and have more musical qulaifications than me, I make my living playing drums and other instruments in many different ways and as such when I get asked officially what I do for a living I have to say something so I simply say "I'm a musician", which in many cases such as getting Insurance is a massive disadvantage.
I say musician as I accept and understand from the comments made that you don't call a Solicitor (for example) a Professional Solicitor if they practice law for a living, they simply say they are a solicitor.
Having a professional attitude towards what you do is a benchmark and the right thing to do whichever way you chose to look at it.
All things being equal it's just a tag and is a personal reflection on where we are at that moment in time.
N

I don't use like to tell people I'm a musician, I think it'd suggest that I play in an orchestra, or that I'm somehow academically qualified (which I'm not). If someone asks me what I do for a living I tell them I play guitar and sing in pubs then change the subject…unless I don't want to tell them, in which case I say I'm 'on t'bins'.
MN

Musicians..Ive seen some of those,are'nt they the ones with music stands in front of em.Take away the dots and they aint got a clue.......T

I like the term 'Weekend Warrior' makes me feel like mild mannered Clark Kent on the weekdays and then, with a dramatic
DUH DUH DUUUUUH,
Tex pops out the phonebox, leavin it with a faint pissy odour, and leaps into action ;-)
when I say leaps, it's more of a stroll !!!
when I say stroll, it's more of a shuffle these days acktually !!!!

@Gypsy, me bleedin blood pressure's gone up now too, ;-P

Are the likes of Jedward, Cheryl Cole and The Spice Girls classed as professional musicians? In other words, what is the distinction between a professional musician and a pop star apart from how much money they make?

Never wanted to be a pop star."They’ll sell their ass, their cocks and balls; they'll take the cheque and walk away"
They can keep it, I like to play when and where I like, only a handful of pop stars have any longevity.